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Old 05-30-2009, 10:27 AM   #11
Kaldrin
 
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Default Re: "Save or Die" effects in GURPS.

One of the reasons the save or die mechanic is in D&D with such abandon is because raising dead is like going to the corner store to pick up a carton of milk... I tend to avoid it in GURPS because it's really unfair without it being a well known part of the game.

The zombie campaign I have is the first time I've used it and it's had the effect I wanted it to have. The players all cringe when a zombie gets within a few yards of them and things get tense until it's dead... er, re-dead.
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Old 05-30-2009, 10:52 AM   #12
Victor Maxus
 
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Default Re: "Save or Die" effects in GURPS.

Another reason D&D uses it is because high level characters soon become nearly invincible. Really, what is the threat from a powerful creature if it does 2-12 points of damage with an attack, but your character as over 100 HP. Thus, to make them a threat, they must have some sort of kill quickly scheme built into the game mechanics.
But in GURPS, that is not needed. A D&D dragon doing 4D6 damage with a claw attack may take several swings to drop a 10th level fighter. In GURPS, 4D6 cutting damage is lethal for even the mightiest of heros.
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Old 05-31-2009, 05:33 AM   #13
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Default Re: "Save or Die" effects in GURPS.

Yes, the affliction with the heart attack enhancement is the best way to "Model" save or die abilities for PCs usingn GURPS RAW.

Conceptually, if you like D&D effects, I would suggest bolting sections of D&D RAW to GURPS RAW for your campaign. With very little adjustment, your GURPS baddies or URPS NPCs can be firing magic missiles or power word kill left and right. With spells or effects with saves, no problem - Reflex saves become dx saves. Fortitude saves becomes health saves. Will saves become...well...will saves.

Damage dice should probably be bumped up some given the hp differences of the systems. I would suggest just making the first level of spell do max damage. A first level magic missile should do 5 points of damage (I do believe its 1d4+1). A fifth level fireball would do 4d+6 damage with a dx roll (save) cutting that down to half.

One of the saving graces of fighters in D&D is their extra hit points. If you have players who are not playing spellcasting types, to make them somewhat even with their D&D counterparts, you may want to allow bonus hit points. They are pretty cheap.

If you want your PCs to have D&D spellcaster abilities, and you are caring about points (though I say why bother with points) consider ofering spell caster levels for points. 25 points per caster level might be appropriate. 25 points will get you the spell slots of a first level wizard, for example.
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Old 05-31-2009, 09:49 AM   #14
cmdicely
 
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Default Re: "Save or Die" effects in GURPS.

Remember that in D&D, normal damage kills you after a set number of hitpoints and (except for the massive damage rule in some versions) has no chance of killing you at all otherwise. In GURPS, sufficient cumulative damage causes you to roll vs. HT or die, while 3 times that damage kills you outright. So, a sufficiently damaging attack in GURPS is a save-or-die attack, in effect. Combine that with the fact that GURPS usually doesn't feature escalating hitpoints on the scale D&D does (instead escalating skill and other means of avoiding damage with experience), and attacks which use something other than normal damage to acheive a save-or-die effect are far less necessary in GURPS.
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Old 05-31-2009, 03:48 PM   #15
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Default Re: "Save or Die" effects in GURPS.

Not sure if this is at all what you are looking for, but what about just using the good old "swallow whole" attack with large creatures?
Would that serve your needs?
You could tweak it to be as fast/slow as needed (Grapple attack first then swallow, or successful attack is an automatic swallow, etc.), or the creature could atleast inflict some chewing damage.

I will be using something like this myself in our Fantasy game while the PCs are fighting huge snakes. But my snakes will probably graple first, constriction attack until PC is unconcious, and then swallow in a round or two.
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Old 05-31-2009, 04:05 PM   #16
David Johnston2
 
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Default Re: "Save or Die" effects in GURPS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cato the Elder View Post
, but I'd like to see a way to kill a person instantly, preferably in a way other than inflicting tremendous amounts of damage on them.
Why would you like to see that?
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Old 05-31-2009, 05:03 PM   #17
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Default Re: "Save or Die" effects in GURPS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crakkerjakk View Post
Affliction (Status: Heart Attack) I think? Not sure where that's found and I'm AFMB.

EDIT: And note, creatures without hearts are immune to this, but given the immunity of golems, plants, oozes, and undead to various things in D&D, I don't that's too horrible.
'Heart Attack' is a specific effect, the same power can be used to cause an instant fatality from some other organ failure or equivalent in things that lack organs. It would have to be bought separately unless bought as a modular abilities trait.
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Old 05-31-2009, 06:21 PM   #18
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Default Re: "Save or Die" effects in GURPS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Johnston2 View Post
Why would you like to see that?
It's a generic system, there are many cases where instant death is very in genre.
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Old 05-31-2009, 08:38 PM   #19
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Default Re: "Save or Die" effects in GURPS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LemmingLord View Post
It's a generic system, there are many cases where instant death is very in genre.
There are?
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Old 05-31-2009, 09:07 PM   #20
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Default Re: "Save or Die" effects in GURPS.

I'm not sure what should be said to that except 'yes'.

But for one example, the necromancer's bell Astarael from the Old Kingdom series kills, but doesn't cause damage of any kind.
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