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Old 05-28-2009, 05:20 PM   #1
benz72
 
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Default Phantom abilities

"Like Perfect Illusion, but a phantom can impede movement and inflict real damage. The first time any living creature physically contacts a phantom,
roll a Quick Contest between the casterís effective skill and the beingís
IQ. If the caster loses, then the phantom is treated as a Perfect Illusion for
all purposes with regards to that character. If the caster wins, the phantom has substance and may proceed to strike, grapple, shove, and so on as if it were real. A phantom may have any ST and DX up to the mageís skill with the spell for the purposes of contests, damage inflicted, and so on."

1) Can I cast a Phantom of a giant wielding a big hammer (ST=spell skill) and have him smash down real walls?

2) Can I cast a Phantom of an archer and have him shoot arrows that do damage even though the illusion can't move faster than MV=5?

3) If I can use a phantasmal archer, how do I determine if he hits? Can I declare it to be a hit since I'm the caster? do I have to roll to hit using the DX default for bow? Can I give the Phantom Archer bow skill = spell skill?

Thanks
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Old 05-28-2009, 05:33 PM   #2
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Default Re: Phantom abilities

If I were to allow Phantom into my game (it's one of the specifically banned spells - this started with the 3rd edition write up of the spell that explicitly stated a phantom dragon could breathe fire and simply not putting that part into the current description is NOT the same as disavowing it) I'd allow reasonable use. A phantom of just the arrow alone might not move at speed, but a part of one fired from a bow would be acceptable. Phantoms are able to open doors etc, the phantom could take a real bow and real arrows and get the result.
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Old 05-28-2009, 05:46 PM   #3
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Default Re: Phantom abilities

How would you determine if it hit?
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Old 05-28-2009, 08:18 PM   #4
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Default Re: Phantom abilities

I'm always torn between allowing Phantom to affect inanimate objects as if they have IQ 0, or not, since Phantom is quite powerful enough (even disallowing the "fire-breathing trick"). But the closest to written rules to allow them to affect IQ 0, inanimate, items.

If I did allow it, I'd probably have the Phantom use the bow at default, based on the Phantom's DX. At best, I'd allow the mage to use his skill with the Phantom's DX, or allow Independence to imbue the skill. I certainly would not give the Phantom Bow skill = spell skill.
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Old 05-28-2009, 08:59 PM   #5
David Johnston2
 
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Default Re: Phantom abilities

Quote:
Originally Posted by benz72 View Post
1) Can I cast a Phantom of a giant wielding a big hammer (ST=spell skill) and have him smash down real walls?

2) Can I cast a Phantom of an archer and have him shoot arrows that do damage even though the illusion can't move faster than MV=5?

3) If I can use a phantasmal archer, how do I determine if he hits? Can I declare it to be a hit since I'm the caster? do I have to roll to hit using the DX default for bow? Can I give the Phantom Archer bow skill = spell skill?

Thanks
1) I wouldn't think so. Seems to me a Phantom can only hurt or impede something that has an IQ.

2) Only if you make it big enough to encompass the range between the "archer" and the target since the "archer" can't hurt anyone the illusion hasn't touched. That would get expensive.

3) It would probably be the mage's archery skill or spell skill, whichever is lower. Not that anyone would bother to make an archer.

Last edited by David Johnston2; 05-28-2009 at 09:03 PM.
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Old 05-29-2009, 09:13 AM   #6
Not another shrubbery
 
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Default Re: Phantom abilities

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Johnston2
I wouldn't think so. Seems to me a Phantom can only hurt or impede something that has an IQ.

2) Only if you make it big enough to encompass the range between the "archer" and the target since the "archer" can't hurt anyone the illusion hasn't touched. That would get expensive.

3) It would probably be the mage's archery skill or spell skill, whichever is lower. Not that anyone would bother to make an archer.
Concurrence. I'd only add the stipulation to 2) that the target must have a chance to roll the QC. If you think (as I do) the quasi-reality of the Phantom depends on it being perceived, then the arrows should only damage a target that believes in the illusion (by noticing it, then failing the QC).

Even if you don't adhere to this interpretation of Phantom, the idea of making a missile-user with it is a big stretch. Most illusion specialists will be better off with Create Warrior, I think.
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Old 05-29-2009, 10:47 AM   #7
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Default Re: Phantom abilities

What about a missile user whose missiles are not visible?
e.g. a modern mage casts a phantom of a rifleman, has it aim at a target, make a lod bang and has the rifle recoil... does that still have to be a big enough area that it encompases the target? If so, why?

I'm not sure where it says it can only hurt things with IQ, though the example given assumes that. If my phantom giant stomps by a guard with an IQ rating and rips open the door he is watching, does that door really get ripped open? pr is the rule that only things with IQ>0 can be damaged? If that is so, how does an opponent's breastplate get smashed in when my mace wielding giant smacks him in the chest, since the breastplate presumably has an IQ similar to that of a wall?

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Old 05-29-2009, 10:57 AM   #8
David Johnston2
 
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Default Re: Phantom abilities

Quote:
Originally Posted by benz72 View Post
What about a missile user whose missiles are not visible?
e.g. a modern mage casts a phantom of a rifleman, has it aim at a target, make a lod bang and has the rifle recoil... does that still have to be a big enough area that it encompases the target? If so, why?

I'm not sure where it says it can only hurt things with IQ, though the example given assumes that. If my phantom giant stomps by a guard with an IQ rating and rips open the door he is watching, does that door really get ripped open? pr is the rule that only things with IQ>0 can be damaged? If that is so, how does an opponent's breastplate get smashed in when my mace wielding giant smacks him in the chest, since the breastplate presumably has an IQ similar to that of a wall?

Thanks
The RAW says that the illusion can only hurt things that come into physical contact with it if it wins the IQ contest. If phantom rifleman hasn't come into contact with the target it can't hurt it, and you can't have an IQ contest with something that has no IQ.

Last edited by David Johnston2; 05-29-2009 at 11:01 AM.
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Old 05-29-2009, 11:39 AM   #9
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Default Re: Phantom abilities

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Johnston2 View Post
The RAW says that the illusion can only hurt things that come into physical contact with it if it wins the IQ contest. If phantom rifleman hasn't come into contact with the target it can't hurt it, and you can't have an IQ contest with something that has no IQ.

I see the description for what happens after the contact, but not how to treat it before the contact. Where are you finding those rules? Also, is there a reference for not allowing IQ contests with inanimate objectes instead of treating them as IQ=0?

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Old 05-29-2009, 12:02 PM   #10
David Johnston2
 
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Default Re: Phantom abilities

Quote:
Originally Posted by benz72 View Post
I see the description for what happens after the contact, but not how to treat it before the contact. Where are you finding those rules? Also, is there a reference for not allowing IQ contests with inanimate objectes instead of treating them as IQ=0?

Thanks
The reason why there are no rules for what happens before the contact is because nothing happens before the contact. Well nothing that wouldn't happen with a Perfect Illusion because as the spell description states, it's otherwise like a Perfect Illusion. And why would you even consider the possibility that you can have an IQ contest with non-sentient objects? How can an illusion fool something that has no mind?
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