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Old 04-27-2009, 02:49 PM   #41
Ghostdancer
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Default Re: [DF] Difference between Hidden Lore and Occultisme?

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Originally Posted by Kromm
Sure . . . something like Occultism (Comparative) or Occultism (Survey) would be fine for a generalist who looks more at the relationships between demons, vampires, cryptids, sorcerers, etc. than at what each of those things is in itself. In essence, it would be the basic, unspecialized Occultism skill with a penalty when used to study anything but relationships and similar generalities. Kind of like Area Knowledge (Earth), in a way.
That is fantastic. I figured that's the way it would work (that's what I did in my ongoing Modern Horror game). What sort of penalties would you suggest? Just borrow straight from Area Knowledge?

Also, would you consider valid specialties for Occultism to be on lines similar to Hidden Lore? Or broader/smaller?

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Old 04-27-2009, 03:07 PM   #42
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Default Re: [DF] Difference between Hidden Lore and Occultisme?

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Originally Posted by Ghostdancer
Also, would you consider valid specialties for Occultism to be on lines similar to Hidden Lore? Or broader/smaller?

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The skill description of Occultisme itself suggest: Vampires, Spirits and Demons as 3 different specialties. This seems to be "the same" as Hidden Lore".
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Old 04-27-2009, 03:20 PM   #43
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Default Re: [DF] Difference between Hidden Lore and Occultisme?

I'd recycle the -5 between Theology (Comparative) and specific Theology for use here. See p. B226. It amounts to saying, "In a setting where Occultism requires specialties, the general sort still exists but works at -5 for most of the cooler uses." That doesn't seem likely to obsolete the specialties.

As for matching required Occultism specialties to Hidden Lore specialties . . . well, only if you want! If Hidden Lore is really hidden, then it might well not fit the picture of occultists. For instance, you might have tons and tons of supernatural entities that differ enough to justify Occultism (Demonology), Occultism (Vampirology), etc., yet the truth is that all these things are creatures of Faerie, covered by Hidden Lore (Faerie Lore). Of course, that doesn't make the systematization achieved by Occultism less valuable; it just dooms any study of the fundamental origin.
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Old 04-27-2009, 04:53 PM   #44
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Default Re: [DF] Difference between Hidden Lore and Occultisme?

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Originally Posted by Kromm
I'd recycle the -5 between Theology (Comparative) and specific Theology for use here. See p. B226. It amounts to saying, "In a setting where Occultism requires specialties, the general sort still exists but works at -5 for most of the cooler uses." That doesn't seem likely to obsolete the specialties.
Would one use Techniques to buy up specific areas, then? The main use is at -5, but in a particular, focused area, you buy it up?
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Old 04-27-2009, 05:01 PM   #45
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Default Re: [DF] Difference between Hidden Lore and Occultisme?

No, these are inter-specialty defaults. They're for actual, fully realized skills – like the defaults between different Driving or Guns specialties. You can only buy off penalties as techniques for considerably narrower feats that wouldn't merit skills of their own.
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Old 04-27-2009, 09:06 PM   #46
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Default Re: [DF] Difference between Hidden Lore and Occultisme?

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Originally Posted by Molokh
If so, then I don't get what's the usefulness of having Occultism (Vampires) compared to Hidden Lore (Vampires). While not 'academic', HL seems to give more bang for the point in terms of useful knowledge.
I don't think you should take Occultism (Vampires). Take either Hidden Lore (Vampires) or Occultism without a specialization.
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Old 04-27-2009, 09:07 PM   #47
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Default Re: [DF] Difference between Hidden Lore and Occultisme?

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Originally Posted by Rocket Man
Bingo. I think that's why Kromm drew an equivalency between Hidden Lore and Security Clearence -- Hidden Lore probably *is* a better use of points, but by definition, not everyone can learn it. Anyone who's willing to take time and work with a lot of odd books can slowly pick up Occultism and get at least some correct information.
A lot of roleplayers and fantasy/horror readers probably do have a point in Occultism, or at least a default.
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Old 04-27-2009, 09:08 PM   #48
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Default Re: [DF] Difference between Hidden Lore and Occultisme?

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Originally Posted by Kromm
Sure . . . something like Occultism (Comparative) or Occultism (Survey) would be fine for a generalist who looks more at the relationships between demons, vampires, cryptids, sorcerers, etc. than at what each of those things is in itself.
What is a cryptid?
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Old 04-27-2009, 09:50 PM   #49
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Default Re: [DF] Difference between Hidden Lore and Occultisme?

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Originally Posted by Stone Dog
Then you get to roll your full IQ for Hidden Lore with only spending one point on any given specialty. Illuminated is pretty clear about what it does. Have anything specific in mind?
I didn't when I asked the question; it was just an idea that popped out of my sleep-deprived brain in reaction to the thread.

Having gotten a few hours sleep, and read the responses here, and reread the text of Illuminated, I think I was wondering whether Illuminated would give any benefit to Occultism rolls, as the RAW only explicitly mentions Hidden Lore.
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Old 04-27-2009, 10:36 PM   #50
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Default Re: [DF] Difference between Hidden Lore and Occultisme?

Cryptids (at least only place I see them) are onsters and such from a cartoon called Secret Saturdays.
Very Pulpish.

IMHO I love Hidden Lore. The very fact it doesnt have a default helps to set it apart.
And its designed to be restricted by the powers that be.
In a Fantasy game I encourage Occultism but some of it is not just wrong but outright lies put out by the bad guys. Higher skill can help thin out the lies but still wont reveal secrets.
Hidden Lore is what I give the Wizards and Vampires and some priesthoods.
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