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Old 04-27-2009, 12:51 PM   #31
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Default Re: [DF] Difference between Hidden Lore and Occultisme?

The skill descriptions suggest that knowing Hidden Lore is unusual, even UB-worthy. You can buy Occultism freely.
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Old 04-27-2009, 12:56 PM   #32
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Default Re: [DF] Difference between Hidden Lore and Occultisme?

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Originally Posted by Molokh
If so, then I don't get what's the usefulness of having Occultism (Vampires) compared to Hidden Lore (Vampires). While not 'academic', HL seems to give more bang for the point in terms of useful knowledge.
It would be, except that Hidden Lore only gives knowledge about one very specific thing, like Demons.

Occultism gives less details, but covers Demons, all kinds of magic, spirits, vampires and other undead, alchemy, ancient rites, psychic phenomena, hauntings, different magical belief systems, and about anything else to do with magic or magical critters. All with no specialty needed.

Or you could take a whole lot of Hidden Lore skills. A whole lot of them.
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Old 04-27-2009, 12:56 PM   #33
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Default Re: [DF] Difference between Hidden Lore and Occultisme?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaraxes
The skill descriptions suggest that knowing Hidden Lore is unusual, even UB-worthy. You can buy Occultism freely.
Bingo. I think that's why Kromm drew an equivalency between Hidden Lore and Security Clearence -- Hidden Lore probably *is* a better use of points, but by definition, not everyone can learn it. Anyone who's willing to take time and work with a lot of odd books can slowly pick up Occultism and get at least some correct information.
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Old 04-27-2009, 12:59 PM   #34
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Default Re: [DF] Difference between Hidden Lore and Occultisme?

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Originally Posted by Molokh

If so, then I don't get what's the usefulness of having Occultism (Vampires)
Generally, that doesn't exist – DF certainly doesn't have Occultism specialties. As the Basic Set notes, specialties for Occultism exist only in settings where there's so much paranormal stuff going on that even within an area, there's broad general conjecture. Do note that it wouldn't be either/or with Hidden Lore. Occultism is a systematic study; you'd need it to make predictions or theories. Hidden Lore is just rote memorization of what's set in stone; the first time a new sort of vampire showed up, say, it would be useless.
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Old 04-27-2009, 01:04 PM   #35
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Default Re: [DF] Difference between Hidden Lore and Occultisme?

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Originally Posted by Kromm
Generally, that doesn't exist – DF certainly doesn't have Occultism specialties. As the Basic Set notes, specialties for Occultism exist only in settings where there's so much paranormal stuff going on that even within an area, there's broad general conjecture. Do note that it wouldn't be either/or with Hidden Lore. Occultism is a systematic study; you'd need it to make predictions or theories. Hidden Lore is just rote memorization of what's set in stone; the first time a new sort of vampire showed up, say, it would be useless.
Oh, thanks. I thought GURPS would expect specialities of Occultism to appear in such settings as WoD. If that isn't the case, then indeed it looks balanced.
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Old 04-27-2009, 01:25 PM   #36
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Default Re: [DF] Difference between Hidden Lore and Occultisme?

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Originally Posted by Kromm
Generally, that doesn't exist – DF certainly doesn't have Occultism specialties. As the Basic Set notes, specialties for Occultism exist only in settings where there's so much paranormal stuff going on that even within an area, there's broad general conjecture. Do note that it wouldn't be either/or with Hidden Lore. Occultism is a systematic study; you'd need it to make predictions or theories. Hidden Lore is just rote memorization of what's set in stone; the first time a new sort of vampire showed up, say, it would be useless.
That, or you take an optional specialization for occultism. BTW, I seem to recall that there were rules for even more specialized optional specializations right?
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Old 04-27-2009, 02:08 PM   #37
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Default Re: [DF] Difference between Hidden Lore and Occultisme?

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Originally Posted by Kuroshima
That, or you take an optional specialization for occultism. BTW, I seem to recall that there were rules for even more specialized optional specializations right?
Yep. In PU2:Perks, IIRC.
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Old 04-27-2009, 02:24 PM   #38
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Default Re: [DF] Difference between Hidden Lore and Occultisme?

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Originally Posted by Kuroshima
That, or you take an optional specialization for occultism. BTW, I seem to recall that there were rules for even more specialized optional specializations right?
If I was going to get an optional specialization for occultism it wouldn't be by creature type. It would be by geographic location.
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Old 04-27-2009, 02:36 PM   #39
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Default Re: [DF] Difference between Hidden Lore and Occultisme?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kromm
Generally, that doesn't exist – DF certainly doesn't have Occultism specialties. As the Basic Set notes, specialties for Occultism exist only in settings where there's so much paranormal stuff going on that even within an area, there's broad general conjecture. Do note that it wouldn't be either/or with Hidden Lore. Occultism is a systematic study; you'd need it to make predictions or theories. Hidden Lore is just rote memorization of what's set in stone; the first time a new sort of vampire showed up, say, it would be useless.
So in such a world where there is so much preternatural hoopla could a specialty like say Occultism (Comparative) exist? Where the character knows a little bit about a lot of things, but nothing to specific?

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Old 04-27-2009, 02:40 PM   #40
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Default Re: [DF] Difference between Hidden Lore and Occultisme?

Sure . . . something like Occultism (Comparative) or Occultism (Survey) would be fine for a generalist who looks more at the relationships between demons, vampires, cryptids, sorcerers, etc. than at what each of those things is in itself. In essence, it would be the basic, unspecialized Occultism skill with a penalty when used to study anything but relationships and similar generalities. Kind of like Area Knowledge (Earth), in a way.
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