Monster level + bonuses

[Andrew Hackard]

Originally Posted by Lolly

So, do I understand correctly, that the official answer to my question would be 1?

(sorry for my insistence, but we are now having an argument on this topic in the Russian community, that's why I want a clear, definite answer)

The clear, definite, official answer is the one I already gave. Add the monster's Level plus all modifiers; the total is the combat strength, whether the number is positive, negative, or zero.

[Lolly]

So we don't have to count monster's level (affected by modifiers) and bonuses (given by items) separately?

That is, if a monster has level 3 + 3 bonus by Items (combat strength 6 in total), we still may play Baby on it to drop its combat strength to 1 (although that would effectively mean that its level will become -2 + 3 bonus by Item)?

(sorry if I'm being stupid, but I really can't derive the answer to my original question from what you said)

[Andrew Hackard]

Originally Posted by Lolly

So we don't have to count monster's level (affected by modifiers) and bonuses (given by items) separately?

No, you do not. Add everything up.

[melkiythegreat]

Did order of card playing have influence?

Example: Maul Rat 1lvl + 10Ancient-5baby=6
Example two: Maul Rat 1lvl -5baby=1lvl
Example 3: Maul Rat 1lvl -5baby +10Ancient= 6 or 11??
In my mind correct answer are six.

[Andrew Hackard]

Originally Posted by melkiythegreat

Did order of card playing have influence?

No, no, a thousand times no. That's WAY too much bookkeeping.

Example: Maul Rat 1lvl + 10Ancient-5baby=6

Yes.

Example two: Maul Rat 1lvl -5baby=1lvl

Yes...but no. The Level is still 1, but the combat strength is -4.

Example 3: Maul Rat 1lvl -5baby +10Ancient= 6 or 11??
In my mind correct answer are six.

Combat strength is 6.

[melkiythegreat]

Originally Posted by Andrew Hackard

Yes...but no. The Level is still 1, but the combat strength is -4.

.

It's not clear for me. If i am a 1 lvl i defeat it? Or if i am a 3lvl and have -5 frome change sex?

And so why on modificator's card written:"-5 to Level of Monster (minimum level 1)"

[Andrew Hackard]

Originally Posted by melkiythegreat

It's not clear for me. If i am a 1 lvl i defeat it? Or if i am a 3lvl and have -5 frome change sex?

The monster (from above) has a combat strength of -4. You have a combat strength of 1 (in the first situation) or -2 (in the second). In both cases, your combat strength is higher than the monster's, so you win the combat.

And so why on modificator's card written:"-5 to Level of Monster (minimum level 1)"

Because, based on consultation with a number of other Munchkin gurus (including both Erik and Steve), allowing modifiers to adjust actual monster level rather than combat strength causes all kinds of interactions with certain classes and races that were absolutely NOT intended.

[ArcadianRefugee]

Originally Posted by Andrew Hackard

Because, based on consultation with a number of other Munchkin gurus (including both Erik and Steve), allowing modifiers to adjust actual monster level rather than combat strength causes all kinds of interactions with certain classes and races that were absolutely NOT intended.

OK. (That was NOT Erik's position on 29 Oct 2007.) (Yes, that was quite some time ago and a lot has changed since.)

Still, I (think I) see your point:

Monster Whacker: Overconfidence - You have a +2 bonus against monsters of Level 10 and below.

So, level 11 Monster, plus "Baby" makes it Level 6, so now I get a +2 bonus!

The Churninator: +4 Bonus. Any monster of Level 1 or 2 is automatically churninated and defeated. No one can play cards to help it.

So, I've got a total of 12 and I am facing a Level 7 Monster with 47 points in Bonuses, so I play "Baby" making it Level 2 ... so it's Churninated! Ha ha, suckers!

Oh, the fun. :)

[Andrew Hackard]

Originally Posted by ArcadianRefugee

OK. (That was NOT Erik's position on 29 Oct 2007.) (Yes, that was quite some time ago and a lot has changed since.)

You are correct; this is a change. There were good arguments on both sides of the issue, but all three of Erik, SJ, and I agree on this ruling, so I think it's unlikely to change in the future.

[TheMunchkinKing]

My group and I only recently discovered that we it was possible for negative numbers to be possible at all. I have to say that this has created some new confusion for me that I'm trying to work out. Please forgive me for probably restating some of the questions already presented here...

Level 3 Monster
If you play Baby (-5) on the monster is becomes level 1 but you treat is as a combat strength of (-2)?

If yes, Why? It would seem that the baby card cannot lower the monster below one, which means when you play it on a level 3 monster you're only netting a loss of 2 levels. Why do you still apply the other -3?

In the past, the way we've run it you would face a level 3 monster and baby it and it would become level 1... then if someone applied an Ancient to the monster it would be level 11. We take the order in which the cards are played into account in this situation. Basically, if you play baby on a creature that can't lose all 5 levels you're giving up the difference. So for us it becomes an Ancient Baby Level 11 Monster, not and Ancient Baby Level 8 one.

More clarification on why this process works this way would be appreciated. I understand we can just make this a house rule but I'd like to understand why the rule is the way it is so that we can better understand its application in our game. We prefer to play the game by the rules intended by the "pros" then by our "joes" :)

Thanks for taking the time to respond