That somali rescue...

[Judge Death]

So the bottom line is a team of SEALs parachutes onto the destroyer (Or the ocean near it and board it) at night, so the pirates don't see them, with their gear, take up positions on the rear of the boat with their rifles, and as the lifeboat is being held at the end of a towline (I don't know how or when that happened) manage to shoot the 3 remaining pirates in the head in the same second.

Wow, anyone try statting this out in their favorite game systems? I mean, let's look at the negative mods here. First we have the range, which I'm not sure of, say 50-150 feet or so. OK, no problem for a good rifle with a scope.

The destroyer was a fairly substantial ship and the sea was apparently calm, so it was probably quite stable, say maybe a very minor negative mod to shoot from it at worst.

Now the lifeboat was a small boat, almost certainly bobbing on the sea. The snipers had to shoot through a fairly small plastic window from the animation I saw and hit human head sized targets all in the same second.

So we had some cover mod and motion mod from the bobbing, and these SEALs pulled it off. 3 times out of 3 tries.

I wonder what rifles they were using? 30-06 or .50 caliber?

So basically I'm trying to stat out the negative mods the snipers had to deal with, as in the motion of the ship they were on (minor probably) and the motion of the targets (A lot more, I'd guess) and the fact there was at least some cover involved (Visual obscurement even if it couldn't stop or even deflect the bullets.) plus the size mod for a human head and range. The last two are pretty easy to work out as most decent RPG systems have mod lists for range and target size.

As to the motion factors and what effect on trajectory going through the boat's hull had, those are less easily determined.

I guess we assume the SEALs had about the maximum possible skill in heavy rifle, had time to set up, had plenty of time to aim (Almost unlimited in game terms) and had some of the most accurate rifles modern technology can produce.

Obviously they had enough pluses to overcome the negative mods, it'd just be fun to see how well some RPG systems compare to reality when modeling this.

[Turhan's Bey Company]

Originally Posted by Disturbed1

First we have the range, which I'm not sure of, say 50-150 feet or so. OK, no problem for a good rifle with a scope.

I'd heard 75 feet.

Originally Posted by Disturbed1

The destroyer was a fairly substantial ship and the sea was apparently calm,

The destroyer was towing the lifeboat out of increasingly choppy waters, but I suppose they could have reached calmer waters by that time.

Originally Posted by Disturbed1

The guys had to shoot through a fairly small plastic window from the animation I saw and hit human head sized targets all in the same second.

The descriptions I've heard mention head and shoulders exposed for two of them.

Originally Posted by Disturbed1

So we had some cover mod and motion mod from the bobbing, and these SEALs pulled it off. 3 times out of 3 tries.

Note to self: do not mess with SEALs.

[reb]

Originally Posted by Disturbed1

So the bottom line is a team of SEALs parachutes onto the destroyer (Or the ocean near it and board it) at night, so the pirates don't see them, with their gear, take up positions on the rear of the boat with their rifles, and as the lifeboat is being held at the end of a towline (I don't know how or when that happened) manage to shoot the 3 remaining pirates in the head in the same second.

Wow, anyone try statting this out in their favorite game systems? I mean, let's look at the negative mods here. First we have the range, which I'm not sure of, say 50-150 feet or so. OK, no problem for a good rifle with a scope.

The destroyer was a fairly substantial ship and the sea was apparently calm, so it was probably quite stable, say maybe a very minor negative mod to shoot from it at worst.

Now the lifeboat was a small boat, almost certainly bobbing on the sea. The snipers had to shoot through a fairly small plastic window from the animation I saw and hit human head sized targets all in the same second.

So we had some cover mod and motion mod from the bobbing, and these SEALs pulled it off. 3 times out of 3 tries.

I wonder what rifles they were using? 30-06 or .50 caliber?

So basically I'm trying to stat out the negative mods the snipers had to deal with, as in the motion of the ship they were on (minor probably) and the motion of the targets (A lot more, I'd guess) and the fact there was at least some cover involved (Visual obscurement even if it couldn't stop or even deflect the bullets.) plus the size mod for a human head and range. The last two are pretty easy to work out as most decent RPG systems have mod lists for range and target size.

As to the motion factors and what effect on trajectory going through the boat's hull had, those are less easily determined.

I guess we assume the SEALs had about the maximum possible skill in heavy rifle, had time to set up, had plenty of time to aim (Almost unlimited in game terms) and had some of the most accurate rifles modern technology can produce.

Obviously they had enough pluses to overcome the negative mods, it'd just be fun to see how well some RPG systems compare to reality when modeling this.

been trying to make this very same point since i first came on this forum to no avail!

[Judge Death]

Originally Posted by Turhan's Bey Company

I'd heard 75 feet.


The destroyer was towing the lifeboat out of increasingly choppy waters, but I suppose they could have reached calmer waters by that time.


The descriptions I've heard mention head and shoulders exposed for two of them.

Yeah, after posting this I saw the same bit, that 2 had their heads poking up through the roof.

Good God, how stupid can people get?!?! I wonder what else they were doing. Waving around burning american flags? Flipping off the destroyer crew? Painting concentric circles on their foreheads?

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Disturbed1

Good God, how stupid can people get?!?!

Pretty stupid. It seems that the pirates were also (a) under 20, and (b) probably suffering from khat withdrawal.

[Crakkerjakk]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Pretty stupid. It seems that the pirates were also (a) under 20, and (b) probably suffering from khat withdrawal.

Apparently some pirates have told a Somali reporter that in the future they would be treating American and French hostages more "harshly." That same article included the small coastal town the pirates who said that were based out of. Making threats against thee US and including your home address... well the US may not act on threats, but it just doesn't strike me as wise.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Crakkerjakk

Making threats against thee US and including your home address... well the US may not act on threats, but it just doesn't strike me as wise.

Let's look at some examples of pirate wisdom:

• Shooting at US warships
• Chasing after a US fleet oiler
• Shooting at British warships

Also, in terms of how plausible pirate threats are, observe the French:

• Sending commandos into Somalia
• Sending commandos to free hostages
• Doing it again

Thus, the evidence is that (a) the pirates aren't terribly inclined to actually carry out their threats, and (b) the pirates don't really learn a lesson either.

[Rocket Man]

Originally Posted by Disturbed1

Obviously they had enough pluses to overcome the negative mods, it'd just be fun to see how well some RPG systems compare to reality when modeling this.

Well, since this is an SJG site, let's try mocking it out in GURPS:

* 25 yard range = -7 penalty
* Head shot = -5 penalty
* Motion of lifeboat = GM's guess, I'd probably give about a -3.
* Light cover (presumed from the description of the window) = -2 penalty

Total penalty = -17.

On the shooter's side:

* Base Accuracy for the "sniper rifle" in GURPS Basic = 6+3 (the bonus comes from the scope, if I recall correctly). So +9 altogether, since the sniper is aiming as long as possible.
* Three or more seconds of extra aiming: +2 (not counting the scope)
* Weapon braced: +1
* All-Out Attack (Determined): +1 (since the SEALS aren't expecting return fire)

Total bonus=+13

Since this was at night, there could be some visibility penalties, but I'm assuming the SEALS had night vision gear. I also don't know whether or not they used a laser sight, which in game terms would give an extra +1 (but would probably be conspicuous in a night assault).

Even without that, though, you have a final modifier of -4 to the shot. Challenging, but not impossible, especially for a crack marksman.

[Gold & Appel Inc]

Originally Posted by Rocket Man

* Head shot = -5 penalty

That'd be -7 for the Skull hit location unless all three were shot from the direction of their rear hexes (4e MA p 137). Getting shot in the Face with a high-powered rifle is of course pretty bad for you also, IRL and in game terms, but probably not what the RL SEALS are trained to do (at least in a hostage situation where an extra fraction of a second between the hits and CNS failure could make the whole thing FUBAR).

[mlangsdorf]

The SEALs are almost certainly using match grade ammunition for another +1, and probably advanced sights for another +1 on top of that, neatly canceling out the additional -2 for the skull shot.

Also, the cover penalty doesn't apply, since they're already aiming at an exposed part of the body. Right?

Add in the probability that they have Weapon Bond to their sniper rifles (the Delta Operators in Black Hawk Down had their own armorer who modified the weapons to fit the operators, I'm sure the SEALs have something similar), and they only need skill 18 or so to have a 90% accuracy right. Looks reasonable to me.

They might also have the Long Aim technique from High Tech, but I don't know if it would apply in this situation.