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Old 12-25-2008, 03:23 PM   #1
pizzachef
 
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Default Too Long Between Turns

Our family really loves the munchkin card games and play them a lot. So we were excited about Munchkin Quest.

The problem that we are running in to is that it is just too long between turns. My kids have a tendency to use their movement only to explore. With some with three movement points, and some with four mp, and four players, it can mean 10+ monster fights before one's turn ever comes back up. Very tedious. For now, we are imposing the arbitrary rule of one exploration per turn plus one if they have a racial or class movement modification greater than one. Unlike some others on the board, we don't have a problem with the complexity, just the downtime between one's turns. There are only so many curses one can send out, and if no one is next door then there is no helping to do. And controlling monsters really only boils down to rolling dice, as again there just are not that many power-ups in one's hand of 5 cards to affect that many monsters.
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Old 12-25-2008, 09:48 PM   #2
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Default Re: Too Long Between Turns

1. Play time will speed up as you all become more familiar with the game.

2. Try starting everyone off at Move 2 instead of Move 3. Huge difference in play.
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Old 12-25-2008, 10:14 PM   #3
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Default Re: Too Long Between Turns

What my thoughts about this were that you could take things that normally don't cost movements points and assign movement points to them. For example, combat could use up a movement point (if you have any left).
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Old 12-26-2008, 06:02 AM   #4
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Default Re: Too Long Between Turns

Here is some more ideas right here on this forum.

http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=48496
http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=48438
http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=46910

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Last edited by Quaff_fu; 12-26-2008 at 02:48 PM.
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Old 12-26-2008, 06:14 AM   #5
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Default Re: Too Long Between Turns

I'm thinking of testing the following house rules:

v1: You may spend a Movement Point in combat to receive a +n Bonus.
v2: You may spend a Movement Point in combat to receive an extra die.

These would have the benefit of shorter turns and a shorter game.
But it might be too good for anyone with an extra Movement die.
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Old 12-26-2008, 01:06 PM   #6
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Default Re: Too Long Between Turns

In the 4-player game we played last night, it took nearly 2 hours before the 4th player got their turn. While that was the most egregious example we've suffered (it's more typical for each turn to take about 15-20 minutes, with the last player's turn usually coming up about an hour after we've started), it's clearly not optimal game design.

And part of the reason it took so long is because everyone in the game was very active out-of-turn -- lot of monster buffing, negotiating, trading, etc.

This isn't just a matter of time, but the multiple-move mechanics lead to other undesirable outcomes. For example, at the end of the third player's first turn last night the players were 6th, 8th, and 7th level with lots of equipment. The fourth player was already 2nd level (because she was an elf), but had quickly ended up out of position to help the others as everyone moved away from the entrance. She hadn't shared in combats or treasure hauls and was seriously disadvantaged.

So here's what we're going to try playtesting with our next game:

(1) Determine the prime player by rolling the dice. The player with the highest result is the prime player. (In the case of ties, roll until the tie is broken.)

(2) At the beginning of the game or at the end of any monster movement phase, the player with the most green feet (movement points) takes a turn. In the case of ties, start at the prime player and go clockwise.

(3) On their turn, in addition to all of the other actions allowed by the rules (playing cards, combat, etc.), a player can take any ONE action which requires the use of movement points. Their turn then ends and is followed by a monster movement.

(4) If all of the movement points at the table have been spent at the end of a monster movement, then all of the movement points are flipped back to green.

We suspect that this will have several effects:

(a) Play will look a little more like traditional Munchkin, in that -- on any given turn -- a player will probably only fight a single combat (at most).

(b) Players won't have such long lapses between their turns, which also means that there will be a more active churn of resources (helping to keep the game fresh).

(c) Monsters will become more active in their movement around the board (which we think will be a good thing).

(d) Because each turn is taken in smaller increments, we think that there will be a larger consideration of things like "come into this room with me" or "we'll move 'together' in this direction" and the like.

We're also hoping that the end game will become a little more dynamic, with a greater sense of "racing to the finish line".

And right now we're seeing people very eager to aid each other (much more so than in our Munchkin games), which we suspect is because we're all bored waiting for our turn and, therefore, eager to be able to participate out-of-turn.

This play dynamic is reinforcing (because it extends the length of play even more), but also shortens the game (because it becomes easier to rake in the levels and equipment). It also means there are rarely monsters left on the board, which tends to flattern what could be some of the more interesting elements of gameplay.

I'll report back here after we've had a chance to actually run a playtest with this solution in place. And I'd be interested in hearing other people's experience with it.
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Old 12-26-2008, 02:26 PM   #7
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Default Re: Too Long Between Turns

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustinA

So here's what we're going to try playtesting with our next game:

(1) Determine the prime player by rolling the dice.

I submit to call the Prime Player the Quest Master (QM). Or the Munchkin Quest Master (MQM).

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Old 12-26-2008, 03:31 PM   #8
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Default Re: Too Long Between Turns

I don't know, maybe you could try to play a little more cooperatively for the first few Levels (Levels, not turns). Acting like a bunch of crazed weasels, stalling every player from getting to Level 2, is usually a good way to make the game take forever.
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Old 12-26-2008, 05:24 PM   #9
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Default Re: Too Long Between Turns

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustinA
And part of the reason it took so long is because everyone in the game was very active out-of-turn -- lot of monster buffing, negotiating, trading, etc.
How did everybody get so many DxM cards? If a lot of that went on during the first player's turn, I would think that everyone would have nearly exhausted their hands before the second player started.
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Old 12-26-2008, 09:23 PM   #10
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Default Re: Too Long Between Turns

Quote:
Originally Posted by mib2932
How did everybody get so many DxM cards? If a lot of that went on during the first player's turn, I would think that everyone would have nearly exhausted their hands before the second player started.
Are you kidding? We usually end up drawing 6-8 DxMs each turn, it seems. Darn near everything in the game gives you a DxM . . .
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