R-rated GURPS

[Fish]

Obviously GURPS is designed with a PG-rating in mind. Skills like Sex Appeal and Erotic Art exist, but they are couched in very neutral terms.

I'm curious what kind of demand there is for a homebrew GURPS equivalent of d20's Book of Erotic Fantasy. It seems a shame that sex is almost non-existent or irrelevant in this role-playing game, when it does so many things so well.

Now it's true that in most games, the rules suffice to cover most situations. There's no need to roll for the stickier bits of intimate human behavior, for instance. ("I nibble her earlobe. Oh no, critical failure!" "Roll for bite damage.") Most of the time, sexuality doesn't rise to the level of anything worth points. Bio-Tech treats most reproductivity as 0-point feature.

How irrelevant is it? There isn't even a place on the GCA character sheet to note your character's gender. And I think it's a shame, because sexual dimorphism is a common feature among many animals. Besides, so many stories are based on attraction, love, devotion, relationships, marriage or jealousy. What would English (and indeed American) history be if not for Henry VIII's infatuation with Anne Boleyn?

[Bruno]

I don't see a particular demand for the Book of Erotic Fantasy, but I thought it was rather poorly done[1]. Naughty & Dice RPG: An Adult Gamer's Guide to Sexual Situations Sabledrake Enterprises, is VERY good, and generally system neutral.

Which one would expect, from the folks who wrote the GURPS SEX netbook, which you can probably still find with a little careful Googling...

[1] in that the impression I got while reading it was very "Tee hee, boobies!" - like a couple of 12 year olds with a naughty magazine. The writing and editing didn't seem particularly sloppy, it just felt rather juvenile.

[Mark Skarr]

Originally Posted by Fish

Obviously GURPS is designed with a PG-rating in mind. Skills like Sex Appeal and Erotic Art exist, but they are couched in very neutral terms.

That's because they want to sell the game. They don't want to have to worry about people like Jack Thompson raining "hell-fire" down on them for corrupting the youth of the world.

A while ago, there was a homebrew GURPS Sex book. It was fun to read. The people who made that went on to write Naughty and Dice.

On the other hand, as Bill Stoddard and myself have repetedly stated: it is completely possible to have a sex-based GURPS game.

You'll want to think about how to price some of the more useful abilities ("Hmm, full reproductive control for a female would be more useful in this game than combat reflexes . . ."). But, it is just something you'd have to sit down and do.

[edit]
I knew it! Bruno's a ninja!

[MrKay]

Originally Posted by Fish

Obviously GURPS is designed with a PG-rating in mind. Skills like Sex Appeal and Erotic Art exist, but they are couched in very neutral terms.

I'm curious what kind of demand there is for a homebrew GURPS equivalent of d20's Book of Erotic Fantasy. It seems a shame that sex is almost non-existent or irrelevant in this role-playing game, when it does so many things so well.

Now it's true that in most games, the rules suffice to cover most situations. There's no need to roll for the stickier bits of intimate human behavior, for instance. ("I nibble her earlobe. Oh no, critical failure!" "Roll for bite damage.") Most of the time, sexuality doesn't rise to the level of anything worth points. Bio-Tech treats most reproductivity as 0-point feature.

How irrelevant is it? There isn't even a place on the GCA character sheet to note your character's gender. And I think it's a shame, because sexual dimorphism is a common feature among many animals. Besides, so many stories are based on attraction, love, devotion, relationships, marriage or jealousy. What would English (and indeed American) history be if not for Henry VIII's infatuation with Anne Boleyn?

First of all, a critical failure when nibbling an ear? Mike Tyson, anyone?

Sexuality in RPG's is a sticky (pun not intended) issue because it strikes a bit too close to home, in that people might fear letting on too much of their own dirty little kinks. There aren't any hard and fast rules for love and how it works in RL, and personally I don't see the need for it in a game.

Originally Posted by Bruno

I don't see a particular demand for the Book of Erotic Fantasy, but I thought it was rather poorly done[1]. Naughty & Dice RPG: An Adult Gamer's Guide to Sexual Situations Sabledrake Enterprises, is VERY good, and generally system neutral.

Which one would expect, from the folks who wrote the GURPS SEX netbook, which you can probably still find with a little careful Googling...

[1] in that the impression I got while reading it was very "Tee hee, boobies!" - like a couple of 12 year olds with a naughty magazine. The writing and editing didn't seem particularly sloppy, it just felt rather juvenile.

Actually, it was worse. It was "Tee hee, boobies and OOO! Look! A gargantuan sword, I wonder what that symbolizes?"

A friend of mine actually bought it and had the temerity to say he liked it. I immediately disowned him from my peer group! :P

[Mark Skarr]

Originally Posted by MrKay

Sexuality in RPG's is a sticky (pun not intended) issue because it strikes a bit too close to home, in that people might fear letting on too much of their own dirty little kinks. There aren't any hard and fast rules for love and how it works in RL, and personally I don't see the need for it in a game.

Then you're welcome to not use it.

Originally Posted by MrKay

Actually, it was worse. It was "Tee hee, boobies and OOO! Look! A gargantuan sword, I wonder what that symbolizes?"

Really? Hmm, glancing through mine it doesn't have anything like that. I guess the Norwegian translation might have been off.

Originally Posted by MrKay

A friend of mine actually bought it and had the temerity to say he liked it. I immediately disowned him from my peer group! :P

You must run out of friends, quick. Just because someone likes something you don't (I don't disown people for liking Uwe Boll movies, but I do try to help them with that disadvantage) is no reason to ostracize them.

[MrKay]

Originally Posted by Mark Skarr

Then you're welcome to not use it.

I didn't say that love and romance was something I never use in games, it's just I don't see the need for making rules for it.

Originally Posted by Mark Skarr

Really? Hmm, glancing through mine it doesn't have anything like that. I guess the Norwegian translation might have been off.

Just the impression I got. A subtle blend of what the archetypical male geek gamer likes; naked chicks and funky-looking swords.

Originally Posted by Mark Skarr

You must run out of friends, quick. Just because someone likes something you don't (I don't disown people for liking Uwe Boll movies, but I do try to help them with that disadvantage) is no reason to ostracize them.

That last bit was irony, by the way. I don't speak to the man anymore, but that's got to do with other stuff than that book.

[David L Pulver]

Originally Posted by Fish

Obviously GURPS is designed with a PG-rating in mind. Skills like Sex Appeal and Erotic Art exist, but they are couched in very neutral terms.

Now it's true that in most games, the rules suffice to cover most situations. There's no need to roll for the stickier bits of intimate human behavior, for instance. ("I nibble her earlobe. Oh no, critical failure!" "Roll for bite damage.") Most of the time, sexuality doesn't rise to the level of anything worth points. Bio-Tech treats most reproductivity as 0-point feature.

Google for "GURPS Sex" by Tim and Christine Morgan - it's still on the web.

Actually, the reason for treating reproductive capabilities as a 0-point feature is two fold:

(a) SJ Gamers preferred that no new advantages or disadvantages be added to books beyond the Basic Set. Features are an exception to this.

(b) The ability to get pregnant (or not get pregnant) and the ability to sire or not sire children is either a blessing or a curse depending on the individual situation, which is why some people pay for birth control and others pay for fertility treatments. Since the advantages and disadvantages balance out, this tends to lean toward making it a minimal or zero cost feature.

Transhuman Space has a number of vignettes and sections that hint at different ways human and nonhuman sexuality and romance may be expressed in that future: see p. 71 and p. 119 in Transhuman Space core book, or various vignettes and character histories in Deep Beyond.

[Turhan's Bey Company]

Originally Posted by Fish

Besides, so many stories are based on attraction, love, devotion, relationships, marriage or jealousy. What would English (and indeed American) history be if not for Henry VIII's infatuation with Anne Boleyn?

Marketability aside, this gets into one of the fundamental questions of RPGs. Yes, this is important stuff. The question is how rules-bound should it be? Should all of that stuff be talked out, or should we hand it over to the dice? I won't venture a firm opinion on that, but it is a consideration.

I'm also inclined to believe that the important part here is not sex itself, but everything around sex: attraction, communication, infatuation, marriage family loyalties, inheritance, etc. To my mind, what people do in bed isn't nearly as interesting, for the sake of narrative, as what they do in order to get there and what they feel compelled to do once they get up again. The book we need isn't GURPS Sex. It's GURPS Romance, or perhaps GURPS Relationships seeing as there are ramifications beyond the three people involved and the shop where they bought the equipment. No, I'm not saying that there shouldn't be a GURPS Sex, but if I'm going to see something in that general neighborhood, I choose the one which I can port between the red light district and young Victorians who can never touch, not one only relevant to the former.

[Mailanka]

My main complaint about supplements like the Book of Erotic Fantasy, or others, is that most aspects of teh hawt pron doesn't need mechanics. I think you need to at least have a good idea of how good you are in bed (especially if we're moving towards supernatural sex-prowess), but beyond Erotic Art, Sex Appeal, Extreme Sexual Dimorphism and Attractiveness (and things like Flexibility) cover most of our bases. Maybe we could conjure up a few techniques, but beyond that...

Really, "R-rated" is more of a lens than a genre. The non-porn stuff is just as important as the porn, often more as it gives the porn context and consequences. The lusty, demonic teenager who struggles to contain the monster within, the vampire who addicts his love to his blood, the master fencer madly in love with a married woman, the shaolin master who must restrain his sexual energies while a kung fu courtesan constantly tempts him. GURPS can handle all of these things perfectly fine.

So, really, I think any sexy GURPS supplement would mostly discuss how to use it in your games, rather than offering new mechanics. We had a discussion about what Erotic Art should mechanically do (I still say it should give you a dose of Awe ^_^), maybe a few more advantages/perks, and stuff like tantric magic or interesting powers, but beyond that, I don't think much is necessary.

[MrKay]

Originally Posted by Mailanka

My main complaint about supplements like the Book of Erotic Fantasy, or others, is that most aspects of teh hawt pron doesn't need mechanics. I think you need to at least have a good idea of how good you are in bed (especially if we're moving towards supernatural sex-prowess), but beyond Erotic Art, Sex Appeal, Extreme Sexual Dimorphism and Attractiveness (and things like Flexibility) cover most of our bases. Maybe we could conjure up a few techniques, but beyond that...

Really, "R-rated" is more of a lens than a genre. The non-porn stuff is just as important as the porn, often more as it gives the porn context and consequences. The lusty, demonic teenager who struggles to contain the monster within, the vampire who addicts his love to his blood, the master fencer madly in love with a married woman, the shaolin master who must restrain his sexual energies while a kung fu courtesan constantly tempts him. GURPS can handle all of these things perfectly fine.

So, really, I think any sexy GURPS supplement would mostly discuss how to use it in your games, rather than offering new mechanics. We had a discussion about what Erotic Art should mechanically do (I still say it should give you a dose of Awe ^_^), maybe a few more advantages/perks, and stuff like tantric magic or interesting powers, but beyond that, I don't think much is necessary.

A work on how to use romance in games would indeed be more interesting than tables and calculations determining your sexual prowess on the basis of Character Level and penis size.

And who knows, perhaps learning to handle the topic of sexuality and romance maturely and responsibly in a game might improve our ability to do the same in real life?