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Old 11-24-2008, 06:52 AM   #11
Randover
 
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Default Re: Criticism for my Plot Point System? Please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedMattis
That they couldn't affect the plot in a meta-way you mean?



Uh, sorry, I'm not quite sure I understand what you mean there?
Yes, some players simply can't thing both in meta-way and in-role (or in character).

Magic already has some other rules regarding succes and failures and there critical levels (For example luck is forbidden with magic). Plus in thaumatology you can use optional rule to power spell with CP.

So how does Plot points work with magic?

I personaly as a mage-player would protest a little because other characters have gained limited cinemmatic ability and that makes my magic less special (Imbalaced).
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Old 11-24-2008, 07:35 AM   #12
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Default Re: Criticism for my Plot Point System? Please.

What is the purpose of distinguishing 'specialists' from 'heroes'?
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Old 11-24-2008, 07:53 AM   #13
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Default Re: Criticism for my Plot Point System? Please.

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Originally Posted by Figleaf23
What is the purpose of distinguishing 'specialists' from 'heroes'?
Well generaly Specialist could realisticaly handle this particular situation. Hero is just lucky, and could be lucky in any number of situations, but he is especialy good in situations that are dangerous.
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Old 11-24-2008, 07:56 AM   #14
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Default Re: Criticism for my Plot Point System? Please.

Sorry, I don't mean what purpose do the character types serve in game, I'm wondering what the GM is trying to get by making two character classes?
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Old 11-24-2008, 07:56 AM   #15
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Default Re: Criticism for my Plot Point System? Please.

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Originally Posted by Randover
Well generaly Specialist could realisticaly handle this particular situation. Hero is just lucky, and could be lucky in any number of situations, but he is especialy good in situations that are dangerous.
Again, it sounds just like one has lots of points in skills, the other in advantages such as Luck, Serendipity, Daredevil or cinematic traits. Seems akward to treat is diffrently.
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Old 11-24-2008, 08:26 AM   #16
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Default Re: Criticism for my Plot Point System? Please.

Why don't you just give the players 250 points and create an advantage "Plot Points" that's worth 100 points?

Voila, no classes or whatsoever...
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Old 11-24-2008, 08:51 AM   #17
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Default Re: Criticism for my Plot Point System? Please.

Well yes and no.

If you use Plot points you separate them from normal points because number of reasons. For example advatages that are more powerfull based on characters points total.

Secondly you are trying to express that the PC are the main characters of "the show" and players are responsible more for what happens next. But by giving it a cap you are forcing players to protect "realism".

Luck and other advatages still keep a lot to dices, and to GM to decide. But with plot points Players a co-authors. In this style there is nothing like short-circueting the plot, since players co-write the plot.

The difference still remain Specialist can do his stuff a lot more often. While hero can only sometimes - because he needs to pay for his succes.

If played this way balance is no issue. Since all PC can use Plot points. Specialist could use them less often in his field of expertice.

Effectively giving more characters points might work, but usualy players tend to do too effective builds, so this is an alternative to pre-build characters by GM. You can still create what ever character you want, but the player no longer needs to be super-effective in character creation since plot points could help him from time to time.
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Old 11-24-2008, 09:56 AM   #18
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Default Re: Criticism for my Plot Point System? Please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chris1982
Why don't you just give the players 250 points and create an advantage "Plot Points" that's worth 100 points?

Voila, no classes or whatsoever...
Serendipity w/ wishing sounds pretty close to a plot point, and you can buy 3 levels for 90 points. If we assume everybody gets 2 levels for free (since "specialists" get the least and get two), then "Heroes" get 5 levels total, and you could say that one level of serendipity is Serendipity (Wishing +100%, Accumulates Uses +60%) to represent the "Red" point and consume the extra 10 points.
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Old 11-24-2008, 04:58 PM   #19
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Default Re: Criticism for my Plot Point System? Please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randover
Magic already has some other rules regarding succes and failures and there critical levels (For example luck is forbidden with magic). Plus in thaumatology you can use optional rule to power spell with CP.

So how does Plot points work with magic?
Well, Fate Points generally work as:
1 point: Minor Edge (Hitting with the difficult shot, surviving the stab-wound...)
2-3 points: Notable Edge (Getting a bonus for an entire scene, guaranteeing survival in a limited way...)
4-6 points: Significant Edge: (Guaranteeing survival for an entire meeting, coming back from the dead)

If the spell is extremely risky, but very powerful, I'd simply require more Fate Points to let the players use it.
Same thing as if a player asks if he can have a silver-loaded gun when they face a werewolf. I'd say: "Sure, 5 Fate Points" (or some other value higher than 2), and in my decidedly deadly setting the Heroes rarely want to run around without a few spare Fate Points to avoid having their face turned to paste when a vampire kicks them in the face. (Specialists are often not even there in the first place (Professor Types), or competent enough to dodge, or creatures such as vampires themselves, and can somewhat often deal with it without Fate Points)

Points is: Fate Points are like the old rules for spending Character Points to do things such as reducing damage from an attack to 1 via the Flesh-wound rules (Obviously replaced by my version in the Fate Points system, but it is a matter of taste)
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Old 11-24-2008, 05:28 PM   #20
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Default Re: Criticism for my Plot Point System? Please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Figleaf23
Sorry, I don't mean what purpose do the character types serve in game, I'm wondering what the GM is trying to get by making two character classes?
In many stories there are the powerful champions, skillfull old veterans, knowledgable professors, and creatures such as Robots/Cyborgs or supernatural enteties.
In short, powerful people who can do a lot just though sheer skill or ability.

Then there are the people (Buffy calls them Whitehats) who are not so competent, they might be wannabe heroes, klutzy rookie soldiers, timid apprentices, rookie PSIs, or even just ordinary people.
People who are in contrast to the champions (et cetera) are not so very competent simply.

In stories both are usually mixed, and it is often interesting to have a competent and powerful figure along with a few more mundane people.
Yet these people survive and manage to be useful... how? Plot Protection
Many players like playing Whitehats who are shielded by the plot, and can occasionally shock the Champions with their inventiveness, or the "Oh, I picked that up when we were fleeing from those devil-fiends, it looked useful"-moments, and sometimes snap at powerful villains and turn into a Determinator who kicks their sorry asses despite the Power Difference.


GURPS deals with this by letting characters pick whether to use their Character Points to by successes or buy up their abilities, but this does poorly when you want a different start-level for the characters.
Players with 100 unspent points to buy fleshwounds or successes for isn't a very good idea, and is probably going to end with the player using tons and overshadowing everyone... unless the campaign is a long one in which case he will probably start running low. A Munchkin would give up there and make a new character with 100 unspent points *sigh*
Even if this was not a problem few players really like spending their hard earned character points to get plot lucky. Character points are like metaphorical chocolate money, eating it might be good and tasty, but many would regret it later. Makes for a bad mood when spending Cinematic Points. For some people.

As suggested various advantages can give a character some Plot Power, but frankly, unless greatly limited it will feel more like a Plot Super-Power than Plot Protection. It is to much work and not quite worth it in my opinion.
What I am doing is not giving the players Advantages, I am giving them the option to trade extra Character Points for special Character Points which can be spent only for Cinematic Effects
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