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Old 12-09-2009, 09:25 AM   #31
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Default Re: Car Wars 5e Vehicle Design

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Originally Posted by helbent4 View Post
I can't recall if firing a flamethrower causes a smokescreen or not, although I don't think this is the case in CW5e.
Yes in CWC, no in CW5.

FWIW, it sounds like you're describing an incendiary rocket.
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Old 12-09-2009, 11:45 AM   #32
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Default Re: Car Wars 5e Vehicle Design

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Originally Posted by Parody View Post
Yes in CWC, no in CW5.

FWIW, it sounds like you're describing an incendiary rocket.
Parody,

I think the "incendiary rocket" may instead work on what we'd call a "thermobaric" or "fuel-air explosive" principle. Different rockets work on this principle, and there are several real-life examples I know of developed by the Russians (TBG-7V, RPO-A Shmel) that do not use previously posted materials (phosphor, napalm or TPA) to create a flame but instead are true thermobaric weapons.

Granted, I don't know where the incendiary rocket is listed so I can't double-check, but incendiary rocket = thermobaric warhead makes sense for an optional rocket load, as opposed to a dedicated "flamethrower" weapon.

Tony

Last edited by helbent4; 12-09-2009 at 11:54 AM.
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Old 12-09-2009, 12:43 PM   #33
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Default Re: Car Wars 5e Vehicle Design

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Originally Posted by helbent4 View Post
Granted, I don't know where the incendiary rocket is listed so I can't double-check, but incendiary rocket = thermobaric warhead makes sense for an optional rocket load, as opposed to a dedicated "flamethrower" weapon.
Page 103 of the CWC2.5. The Sizzler, PP. 12-13 in the CW5 Division 5 Vehicle Guide. Neither one has a description of "how it works". (The UACFH might.)

I personally don't care about how the weapons might work in real life. Flamethrowers make huge jets of flame that don't damage their vehicle? Cool! Also useful enough that you might actually see it on a design. There's a reason we call it "Car Wars Physics", after all. :)
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Old 12-09-2009, 09:15 PM   #34
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Default Re: Car Wars 5e Vehicle Design

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Originally Posted by helbent4 View Post
I think the "incendiary rocket" may instead work on what we'd call a "thermobaric" or "fuel-air explosive" principle.
I think an incendiary rocket would use thermite or napalm. A thermobaric rocket would create a flame cloud. A fuel-air explosive produces a powerful concussive effect which is represented by the D2 hazard of a flame cloud.
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Old 12-09-2009, 10:14 PM   #35
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Default Re: Car Wars 5e Vehicle Design

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Originally Posted by Parody View Post
Page 103 of the CWC2.5. The Sizzler, PP. 12-13 in the CW5 Division 5 Vehicle Guide. Neither one has a description of "how it works". (The UACFH might.)

I personally don't care about how the weapons might work in real life.
Parody,

If there is no description, then we can get creative, eh?

Personally, I respect your (and anyone else's) right not to care how how CW weapons work in real life and don't think anything less of you for it. If I want to waste time thinking about it, I hope no one gets bent out of shape or anything! Mostly, I've done some CW art and may do some fiction, so translating abstract to the real world does make some difference to me.

I understand this urge to figure it out is not normal or necessary to enjoy CW, hence the "God help me..." comment. I have been mocked for coming up with a rationale for Gamma World mutations (why does radiation cause you to grow another arm instead of making you sterile and/or giving you cancer?). =)

Last edited by helbent4; 12-09-2009 at 10:40 PM.
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Old 12-09-2009, 10:38 PM   #36
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Default Re: Car Wars 5e Vehicle Design

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I think an incendiary rocket would use thermite or napalm. A thermobaric rocket would create a flame cloud. A fuel-air explosive produces a powerful concussive effect which is represented by the D2 hazard of a flame cloud.
Chaotic,

I can't find the listing for a flame cloud rocket or an automatic D2 hazard for flame clouds in the CWC2.5 or errata. I see flame cloud ejectors and so on. Bear in mind I may be missing something obvious and I admit I don't have an encyclopedic knowledge of the rules (any edition).

In essence, there really could be little functional difference between a dedicated "flamethrower" that really shoots small incendiary rockets, and an incendiary warhead that can be fired from a rocket launcher or fitted to (say) a heavy rocket. Other than a size and marketing one, perhaps!

Tony
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Old 12-10-2009, 08:37 AM   #37
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Default Re: Car Wars 5e Vehicle Design

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Originally Posted by helbent4 View Post
I can't find the listing for a flame cloud rocket or an automatic D2 hazard for flame clouds in the CWC2.5 or errata.
Try pg. 100 of the CWC2 pdf - the last sentence of the FCE description.
Historical note: When FCEs were first introduced, it was a D4(!) hazard.

Like you, I've also been interested in finding Car Wars weapons and gadgets in the real world. I've done extensive research into the matter. GURPS High-Tech 4e really helps.

If you want a real world equivalent for an incendiary rocket, just pick your favorite incendiary agent and go with it. It doesn't matter which one you pick - they all work. Trust me, though...the long-duration heat and pressure wave produced by a thermobaric explosive = flame cloud.
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Old 12-10-2009, 10:14 AM   #38
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Default Re: Car Wars 5e Vehicle Design

Quote:
Originally Posted by chaoticsyst3m View Post
Try pg. 100 of the CWC2 pdf - the last sentence of the FCE description.
Historical note: When FCEs were first introduced, it was a D4(!) hazard.

Like you, I've also been interested in finding Car Wars weapons and gadgets in the real world. I've done extensive research into the matter. GURPS High-Tech 4e really helps.

If you want a real world equivalent for an incendiary rocket, just pick your favorite incendiary agent and go with it. It doesn't matter which one you pick - they all work. Trust me, though...the long-duration heat and pressure wave produced by a thermobaric explosive = flame cloud.
Chaotic,

Ah, I see. The D2 is just from driving into the cloud, not from any shockwave. Still, quite nasty! I agree the FCE clearly seems to use some kind of thermobaric effect. I think you could have the incendiary rocket be thermobaric or phosphor, TPA, napalm or some other incendiary agent. Same agent/effect, different delivery system.

If there's one weapon that seems to fit the bill as a traditional flamethrower, it's the Flame Cloud Gas Streamer. It can be aimed, has a short range and can't be mounted on the front of the vehicle.

Tony

Last edited by helbent4; 12-10-2009 at 10:18 AM.
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Old 12-10-2009, 01:24 PM   #39
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Default Re: Car Wars 5e Vehicle Design

Quote:
Originally Posted by chaoticsyst3m View Post
Try pg. 100 of the CWC2 pdf - the last sentence of the FCE description.
Historical note: When FCEs were first introduced, it was a D4(!) hazard.
In the UACFH it's the damage hazard which is almost always a D3, splitting the difference. It's an entry in the CWRQ as well, along with the mention that the UACFH generally takes precedence over the CWC2s.

Quote:
Originally Posted by helbent4 View Post
If there's one weapon that seems to fit the bill as a traditional flamethrower, it's the Flame Cloud Gas Streamer. It can be aimed, has a short range and can't be mounted on the front of the vehicle.
There's nothing preventing you from putting an FCGS on the front of a vehicle. You might not like the results, though. :)
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Old 12-10-2009, 08:17 PM   #40
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Default Re: Car Wars 5e Vehicle Design

Speaking of 5e weapons, the one change I wish they'd make is to change the name of "Blast Cannons". I've always hated that name. Why not just call them Heavy Recoilless Rifles (HRR), as that's what they are.
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