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Old 09-01-2018, 10:35 PM   #1911
Daigoro
 
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Default Re: Real-Life Weirdness

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Those U.S. diplomats in Havana and Guangzhou suffering the mysterious, hard-to-pinpoint neurological issues? Turns out our doctors now think it really was a microwave attack, using something called the Frey effect.
So, nothing to do with Walder Frey, it seems. Shame.

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Originally Posted by Flyndaran View Post
(Adjusts aluminum foil hat.)
That would appear to be an effective solution against microwaves.
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Old 09-04-2018, 12:25 AM   #1912
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Default Re: Real-Life Weirdness

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Originally Posted by Daigoro View Post

(SNIP)

That would appear to be an effective solution against microwaves.
Except for the occasional "throwing sparks and bursting into flame," bit.
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Old 09-04-2018, 01:47 AM   #1913
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Except for the occasional "throwing sparks and bursting into flame," bit.
I guess it depends on the flux density. What kind of signal do they suppose for these psycho-masers?

I'm curious though about the "audio message projection" capability of the machines though. Does GURPS have a write-up of them somewhere? It sounds like something nifty to show up anywhere from Teslapunk to modern espionage to cyberpunk games.
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Old 09-11-2018, 11:39 AM   #1914
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Originally Posted by Flyndaran View Post
So the one real aspect is that intense microwave radiation can cause auditory hallucinations followed up with a boat ton of wild speculation based on that.
Skepticism is definitely warranted, but there is now SIGINT backing the theory up, apparently.
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Old 09-11-2018, 12:07 PM   #1915
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"Although the U.S. believes sophisticated microwaves or another type of electromagnetic weapon were likely used on the U.S. government workers, they are also exploring the possibility that one or more additional technologies were also used, possibly in conjunction with microwaves, officials and others involved in the government's investigation say."

That's still vague and grasping at straws, not really backed up, IMO.
They're starting from the assumption that it must be a harmful "ray" of some sort, and working backwards to find what is the least absurd form of tech that could make one.

I'm not dismissing the entire idea outright, but this article isn't hurting my skepticism much.
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Old 09-11-2018, 11:09 PM   #1916
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Originally Posted by Flyndaran View Post
I'm not dismissing the entire idea outright, but this article isn't hurting my skepticism much.
I'm not sure what you'd propose instead that would fit the facts of the case.
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Old 09-11-2018, 11:36 PM   #1917
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Default Re: Real-Life Weirdness

Poison, hysteria, and loads of other things should be considered before completely novel never proved concepts like brain damage ray guns.
But it would certainly work for a conspiracy game.
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Old 09-12-2018, 07:15 AM   #1918
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Originally Posted by Flyndaran View Post
completely novel never proved concepts like brain damage ray guns.
The concept of the Frey effect has been demonstrated. Wikipedia's references below, including Frey's paper that got the effect named after him, along with other papers describing effects going to back to WW II. (Originally noticed in people working near radar transponders, so that date isn't surprising.)

Anyone that's used a microwave oven can hardly doubt the general possibility of "brain damage" from microwaves. The Frey effect isn't permanent brain damage, though.

Whether or not any such thing was actually used in this case is an open question. "Was used" is a more specific question than "is possible", and demands more evidence.

But the basic physiological effect isn't some bizarre conspiracy theory based on wild SF handwaving. The US military was trying it out back in 2003, but dumped their version because they were looking for a temporary incapacitating weapon, and that version at least did seem as though it would lead to actual brain damage by the time the targets would be hearing things. (But then, this set of reports does mention permanent damage, so that's not contradictory.)

Of course, someone interested in a weapon might not care whether or not it's temporary, and if it's intended for harassment or covert use or terrorism or <insert motive here>, the device wouldn't necessarily have to meet all the requirements for a operational, fielded army weapon. It could also be a prototype, or an experiment -- even an experiment destined for ultimate failure to meet its goals, like that 2003 one from the US.

There's game-plausible room for the idea in a lot of settings from WW II (or Weird War II) onward, not necessarily involving vast networks of Illuminati and cabals of covens, but just the ordinary scheming you find in most thrillers.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Wikipedia reference section
R.C. Jones, S.S. Stevens, and M.H. Lurie. J. Acoustic. Soc. Am. 12: 281, 1940.
H. Burr and A. Mauro. Yale J Biol. and Med. 21:455, 1949.
H. von Gierke. Noise Control 2: 37, 1956.
J. Zwislocki. J. Noise Control 4: 42, 1958.
R. Morrow and J. Seipel. J. Wash. Acad. SCI. 50: 1, 1960.
A.H. Frey. Aero Space Med. 32: 1140, 1961.
P.C. Neider and W.D. Neff. Science 133: 1010,1961.
R. Niest, L. Pinneo, R. Baus, J. Fleming, and R. McAfee. Annual Report. USA Rome Air Development Command, TR-61-65, 1961.
A.H. Frey. "Human auditory system response to modulated electromagnetic energy." J Applied Physiol 17 (4): 689–92, 1962.
A.H. Frey. "Behavioral Biophysics", Psychol Bull 63(5): 322–37, 1965.
F.A. Giori and A.R. Winterberger. "Remote Physiological Monitoring Using a Microwave Interferometer", Biomed Sci Instr 3: 291–307, 1967.
A.H. Frey and R. Messenger. "Human Perception of Illumination with Pulsed Ultrahigh-Frequency Electromagnetic Energy", Science 181: 356–8, 1973.
R. Rodwell. "Army tests new riot weapon", New Scientist September 20, p. 684, 1973.
A.W. Guy, C.K. Chou, J.C. Lin, and D. Christensen. "Microwave induced acoustic effects in mammalian auditory systems and physical materials", Annals of New York Academy of Sciences, 247:194–218, 1975.
D.R. Justesen. "Microwaves and Behavior", Am Psychologist, 392 (Mar): 391–401, 1975.
S.M. Michaelson. "Sensation and Perception of Microwave Energy", In: S.M. Michaelson, M.W. Miller, R. Magin, and E.L. Carstensen (eds.), Fundamental and Applied Aspects of Nonionizing Radiation. Plenum Press, New York, pp. 213–24, 1975.
E.S. Eichert and A.H. Frey. "Human Auditory System Response to Lower Power Density Pulse Modulated Electromagnetic Energy: A Search for Mechanisms", J Microwave Power 11(2): 141, 1976.
W. Bise. "Low power radio-frequency and microwave effects on human electroencephalogram and behavior", Physiol Chem Phys 10(5): 387–98, 1978.
J.C. Lin. Microwave Auditory Effects and Applications, Thomas, Springfield Ill, p. 176, 1978.
P.L. Stocklin and B.F. Stocklin. "Possible Microwave Mechanisms of the Mammalian Nervous System", T-I-T J Life Sci 9: 29–51, 1979.
H. Frolich. "The Biological Effects of Microwaves and Related Questions", Adv Electronics Electron Physics 53: 85–152, 1980.
H. Lai. "Neurological Effects of Radiofrequency Electromagnetic Radiation" In: J.C. Lin (ed.), Advances in Electromagnetic Fields in Living Systems vol 1, Plenum, NY & London, pp. 27–80, 1994.
R.C. Beason and P. Semm. "Responses of neurons to an amplitude modulated microwave stimulus", Neurosci Lett 333: 175–78, 2002.
J.A. Elder and C.K. Chou. "Auditory Responses to Pulsed Radiofrequency Energy", Bioelectromagnetics Suppl 8: S162–73, 2003.
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Old 09-12-2018, 08:41 AM   #1919
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Default Re: Real-Life Weirdness

Need cyberpunky reality shows but fear that they will be deemed 'unrealistic' by the players?
Use one that actually happened: real cops chasing cars that have been reported stolen, where if you evade long enough, you win the car.
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Old 09-12-2018, 01:13 PM   #1920
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Default Re: Real-Life Weirdness

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyndaran View Post
Poison, hysteria, and loads of other things should be considered before completely novel never proved concepts like brain damage ray guns..
Evidence those weren't considered?
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