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Old 03-12-2008, 02:09 PM   #21
LoganSaj
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Default Re: Magical Styles

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenophile
Recently I stumbled across a very workable little concept: what if you combined the rules for martial arts styles with those for ritual magic? It's a good way to create different "schools of magic," and it's incredilby easy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kromm
It would be necessary (and interesting!) to define this for magical styles. By analogy to fighting styles
THIS is an awesome idea! I cannot wait to see this in a book someday ... O^o

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Old 03-12-2008, 10:37 PM   #22
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Default Re: Magical Styles

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kromm
Remember that Martial Arts style costs all include a point for an implicit Style Familiarity perk. It would be necessary (and interesting!) to define this for magical styles. By analogy to fighting styles, the definition might look something like this:
Style Familiarity
1 point/style

Cool beans! Got any actual styles you want to share? *ig*
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Old 03-12-2008, 10:52 PM   #23
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Default Re: Magical Styles

One could presumably study multiple styles...
Learning 'trick of the trade' from various groups in sequence until you had everything you were looking for.
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Old 03-13-2008, 04:10 AM   #24
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Default Re: Magical Styles

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kromm
Remember that Martial Arts style costs all include a point for an implicit Style Familiarity perk. It would be necessary (and interesting!) to define this for magical styles. By analogy to fighting styles, the definition might look something like this:
Style Familiarity
1 point/style
[...]
You can always use spells such as Counterspell and Ward against any of the style's spells, at full skill, even if you don't know the spell you're trying to cancel or deflect.
[...]
Finally the Mage-Hunters / Anti-Mages will rock!!!
Cosmic Modular Ability 1 (Mage Styles Only -60%; Reflexive +40%) [8]
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Old 03-13-2008, 08:58 AM   #25
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Default Re: Magical Styles

Quote:
Originally Posted by benz72
One could presumably study multiple styles...
Learning 'trick of the trade' from various groups in sequence until you had everything you were looking for.
Indeed. This means that under any system where the spells you can cast are limited by style, it is going to matter an awful lot whether you are using ritual magic, how many spells there are in a style, and how easy it is to obtain training in a style.

Magic is a bit different from martial arts, in that most martial arts techniques are different ways of doing the same thing (winning a fight) whereas magic spells cover doing pretty much everything. If your martial arts style doesn't cover a particular kick, you can probably get the job done with a different kick, or even a punch or a throw. On the other hand, if you are falling through the air and your magical style doesn't cover flight, most other spells won't work as substitutes.

The closest thing to the way martial arts styles work in most worlds would probably be to use the ritual magic system with path skills being widely available as parts of styles or independently. The spells a style covers would then just be techniques that anyone can try, but which the style teaches you how to improve independently. It wouldn't matter if the style doesn't teach a lot of spells, since the mage can just improve the core skill and still be effective.

Things are trickier if you use the standard magic system. Mages generally want a lot more spells than martial artists want techniques and, as I mentioned, one spell will rarely substitute for another in the way that one technique will substitute for another.

One possibility is to give magical styles whole colleges in place of a selection of techniques. So, for example, we might have

Elven Magic
Skills: Herbalism, Naturalism, Survival (Forest), Symbol Drawing (Elvish), Thaumatology.
Colleges Taught: Animal, Enchantment, Illusion and Creation, Meta, Plant.

Under this system, a style that teaches fewer colleges will tend to be a lot less flexable than a style that teaches more. An awful lot may hang in such a world on how easy it is to be trained in a new style. Can your Elf be trained in a style that offers Necromantic spells just by slapping down some gold, or do they have to tear out one eye and become a priest of Budubu?

Another possibility is to limit the spells a mage can cast to those specifically taught by a style. Magical styles will then have to have a lot more spells in them than martial arts styles have techniques, or the style will be relatively limited. A Martial Artist with six techniques may be well rounded, but a mage with six spells isn't. Again, an awful lot will depend on how easy it is to pick up new styles, although if a mages generally know five or six styles, there may be a loss of style flavor.

Another possibility is to do what I did and to file certain spells under skills that the style requires rather than techniques that it offers. I did this with the intention that magical styles, like martial arts styles, should have their own flavor without being particularly limiting, even if most mages know only one. Nothing in this system plays the role that techniques do in martial arts styles. If I were going to add techniques, I would make most of them variations on existing spells: anyone can learn Fireball, but the mages of Desvio have learned to change the parameters of Fireball in the following way...

Last edited by Greg 1; 03-13-2008 at 09:01 AM.
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Old 03-13-2008, 09:37 PM   #26
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Default Re: Magical Styles

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenophile
You have to buy the skills and spells seperately; buying the style reflects familiarity. It's all in Martial Arts. Also, ritual magery treats spells as techniques, with penalties equal to their total prerequisites.
Hmm so basicly you get all the spells in fire college with path of fire - right?
So someone with that dragon style could actually trhow fireballs and such but he could only buy up the technique for dragon breath - right? In that case there stylees would actually be pretty flexible.
Or do you need at least on point in a technique for it to work at all?
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Old 03-13-2008, 10:04 PM   #27
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Default Re: Magical Styles

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg 1
What is a "Consonant Spell College"?

Ah, well ... first off, by way of explanation, I tore the standard spell colleges apart (hrm, twenty years ago now, actually) and put them back together as I preferred; hence ones that might ring no bells. In my campaign, "consonant colleges" - the term being an OOC mechanic - are the ones falling under your specialty, and learning spells within them are not only relatively easy, but it's easy to find teachers. Beyond that, I require of all mages that at least 50% of their spells be from consonant colleges. Non-consonant colleges are extremely difficult to learn, partially due to the magics being inimical to one another, partially due to societal and peer pressures. Everything not listed is in-between.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg 1
Can they overcome this prohibition by studying another magical style? In other words, are these simply abilities that their magic doesn't cover, or does their magical style actually prevent them from having these abilities?

These are formalized wizardly orders; I don't think I'd outright prohibit a character from leaving one order and joining another, but it's about as likely as someone resigning from the Grand Army of the Republic a hundred years back to join the Confederate Veterans of America. I doubt I'll retrofit the look to match the martial arts styles template. Obviously, YMMV.
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Old 03-13-2008, 11:38 PM   #28
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Default Re: Magical Styles

Been following the thread and I have to say that its an interesting idea. Wanted to toss in a few ideas I've come up with for my campaign based off of it. Let me know what ya think.

Magic is not inborn and does not rely of magical talent, thus the magery disadvantage is history. Magic is based off of spirits instead of mana eliminating the effects of mana level on spell casting. Each "style" or tradition requires a Style Familiarty perk with at least one point in all of the required skills to learn it, and has several spells associated with the tradition. A practitioner of a tradition may only use the spells associated with his tradition and must follow the rules established for his tradition. All spells require at least 10 seconds to cast. Spells with a lower casting time increase to 10 while spells that already took longer are ignored - spirits cannot be invoked with a seconds thought. To compensate, all of the prerequisite penalties are reduced by half (round down). The spells do not default to the path skills either, but to one of the required skills for the tradition. Here is an example tradition:

Stonesong 5 points
Stonesong is the magical tradition of the dwarves. Its practitioners (often called Stonesingers) use the spirits of earth in many different ways. A stonesinger sing deeply in the dwarven language to use his magic and uses the lowest of his skill with the spell or his singing skill for the roll (whichever is lower). Stonesingers are also taught the basics of runesmithing as well, allowing them to craft magical items. They must seek training for the different runes separately.

Skills: Masonry; Ritual Magic (Stonesong); Singing; Symbol Drawing (Runesmithing).
Spells (all default to Ritual Magic (Stonesong): Armor; Awaken Craft Spirit; Counterspell; Divination (Geomancy); Earth to Stone; Earth Vision; Entombment; Explode (earth, stone, or metal only); Find Weakness (earth, stone, or metal only); Flesh to Stone; Identify Metal; Inspired Creation; Metal Vision; Predict Earth Movement; Repair (earth, stone, or metal only); Seek Earth; Seek Pass; Shape Earth; Shape Metal; Sharpen (earth, stone, or metal only); Shatter (earth, stone, or metal only); Stone to Earth; Stone to Flesh; Toughen (earth, stone, or metal only); Weaken (earth, stone, or metal only).

If you see any holes in this, feel free to point em out. Note that I'm probably going to be using this system of magic alongside of the rules for symbol magic.
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Old 03-14-2008, 06:39 AM   #29
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Default Re: Magical Styles

Quote:
Originally Posted by JethroKirby
Been following the thread and I have to say that its an interesting idea. Wanted to toss in a few ideas I've come up with for my campaign based off of it. Let me know what ya think.
Similarly, I would be very interested indeed in any comments, questions or suggestions that anyone has about my styles.

Quote:
Stonesong 5 points
Stonesong is the magical tradition of the dwarves. Its practitioners (often called Stonesingers) use the spirits of earth in many different ways. A stonesinger sing deeply in the dwarven language to use his magic and uses the lowest of his skill with the spell or his singing skill for the roll (whichever is lower). Stonesingers are also taught the basics of runesmithing as well, allowing them to craft magical items. They must seek training for the different runes separately.

Skills: Masonry; Ritual Magic (Stonesong); Singing; Symbol Drawing (Runesmithing).
Spells (all default to Ritual Magic (Stonesong): Armor; Awaken Craft Spirit; Counterspell; Divination (Geomancy); Earth to Stone; Earth Vision; Entombment; Explode (earth, stone, or metal only); Find Weakness (earth, stone, or metal only); Flesh to Stone; Identify Metal; Inspired Creation; Metal Vision; Predict Earth Movement; Repair (earth, stone, or metal only); Seek Earth; Seek Pass; Shape Earth; Shape Metal; Sharpen (earth, stone, or metal only); Shatter (earth, stone, or metal only); Stone to Earth; Stone to Flesh; Toughen (earth, stone, or metal only); Weaken (earth, stone, or metal only).
I like it. It is flavorful and the ability to craft magical items with rune magic gives the style a lot more flexability, in the long term, than it might otherwise have had.

How do Dwarves cope with their lack of Healing magic? Do they seek bring in outsiders, or send their mages away to learn other styles, or just lump it?

What about Meta spells to use in conjunction with their Stonesong magic? Do they bring in outsiders, send their mages away to learn other styles, or just lump it?

How hard is it for a Dwarven mage to learn another style too? How hard is it for a non-Dwarf to learn Stonesong?
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Old 03-14-2008, 07:54 AM   #30
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Default Re: Magical Styles

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kromm
Remember that Martial Arts style costs all include a point for an implicit Style Familiarity perk. It would be necessary (and interesting!) to define this for magical styles. By analogy to fighting styles, the definition might look something like this:

Style Familiarity

1 point/style

Style Familiarity means you've studied and/or practiced a magical style in sufficient detail to understand the thaumatological principles that undergird its spells. You must pay a point for familiarity with any style you know. Effects are as follows:

You can always use spells such as Counterspell and Ward against any of the style's spells, at full skill, even if you don't know the spell you're trying to cancel or deflect.

You can acquire the style's spells simply by spending earned points in play, avoiding lengthy training and/or expensive guild fees. You can still learn spells the hard way if you lack unspent points, at the usual rate of 200 hours of instruction per point.

You're familiar with the style's culture, and neither you nor anyone teaching you suffers the -3 for lack of Cultural Familiarity when using the Teaching skill to convey the style's knowledge.

In most settings, you have the equivalent of a 1-point Claim to Hospitality (p. B41) with a guild or an archmage.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg 1
That's great! I hope that you publish it or otherwise put it up somewhere online as an optional rule. I suppose it is just a tad too late to get it included in GURPS Thaumatology
Did I just become part of Thaumatology's development? OHCRAPI'MGOINGTODIE!
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