12-01-2007, 10:44 PM | #1 | |
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Mesa, AZ
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HIGH-TECH-Arrived-Gun Damage
Received G:HT today Pistol damage has some interesting twists.
.45 ACP 2D pi+ Unchanged from basic GURPS .40 S&W 2D+2 pi+ Basic was 2D so now more powerful than .45 ACP .45 GAP 2D pi+ Equal to .45 ACP despite smaller case .357 SIG 3D-1 pi A 9mm equal to .45 ACP (17 vs 18 max damage) 10mm 3D-1 pi+ Pretty powerful, odd it never caught on .50AE 4D pi+ Quote:
How exactly does .40 & .357 come out so good in GURPS
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Chard: The army doesn't like more than one disaster in a day. Bromhead: Looks bad in the newspapers and upsets civilians at their breakfast. |
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12-01-2007, 10:47 PM | #2 | |
Join Date: Nov 2007
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Re: HIGH-TECH-Arrived-Gun Damage
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12-01-2007, 10:51 PM | #3 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
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Re: HIGH-TECH-Arrived-Gun Damage
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.357 is scary powerful -- base load from a 4" barrel is 158 grains @ 1250 fps (40% more weight and 10% more velocity) for lower tech (tl6) The main police load (by Tl7) is stomping 125 grains @ 1450 FPS -- roughly the same weight as a 9mm but 25% faster . In a 20" barrel carbine this load gets 2000 FPS-- probably 4d+1 or so. Thats a hella lot of power. |
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12-01-2007, 11:13 PM | #4 | |
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Mesa, AZ
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Re: HIGH-TECH-Arrived-Gun Damage
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Example: Sgt Baker was found dead on Saipan with slide locked .45, 8 dead Japanese in front of him, 1 shot, 1 kil,l 8x= MOH (posthumous). Example a friend of mine served with man in Korea with 3 punctures on chest, survived burst from MP40 9mm SMG, 3 bullets, no expansion= survivable wounds. In similar problem semi AP rounds army used in M16 don't expand, so in BLACKHAWK DOWN book Deltas recount need for 12 5.56mm rounds to drop a Skinny. Rifle MV head & shoulders above pistols.
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Chard: The army doesn't like more than one disaster in a day. Bromhead: Looks bad in the newspapers and upsets civilians at their breakfast. |
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12-01-2007, 11:19 PM | #5 | |
Join Date: Nov 2007
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Re: HIGH-TECH-Arrived-Gun Damage
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Yes, 5.56mm rounds (which are only .223 after all) have been known to pass through or to not cause a man to stop and drop. However, I doubt that a .357 magnum would have that complaint levelled against it, nor the .40 S&W; these combine a large slug with high velocity. If the bullet weight alone were the issue, we would all still be seeing soldiers firing big ol' musket balls. The fact that so many of these were dug out of people who survived seems to indicate that a second factor is missing, and this second factor is muzzle velocity. Last edited by Sadurian Mike; 12-01-2007 at 11:23 PM. |
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12-01-2007, 11:30 PM | #6 | |||
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
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Re: HIGH-TECH-Arrived-Gun Damage
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5.56 mm rounds have more stopping power than nearly any pistol round imaginable. They have less stopping power than full-size battle rifle rounds, but that's another argument. Quote:
A Brown Bess round is still an effective manstopper. It's about as effective as a .50 AE in that role, in fact. But one-shot stopping power alone isn't exactly what armies look for today, since there are many other considerations.
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12-01-2007, 11:43 PM | #7 | ||||
Join Date: Nov 2007
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Re: HIGH-TECH-Arrived-Gun Damage
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I said that, if slug size was all it took, we would still be firing musket-balls. There would have been no need to develop a more powerful round. Rate of fire, reliability and all the rest have nothing to do with the argument of velocity+calibre versus calibre alone. As for a musketball being as effective as modern rounds... again, if you are claiming it is as powerful as a .50 round then I am again highly sceptical. In fact, I would call you entirely wrong and ask where a musket ball was known to penetrate armour plate or even brick walls. |
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12-02-2007, 12:00 AM | #8 | |
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
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Re: HIGH-TECH-Arrived-Gun Damage
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Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness is more or less the mandatory place to start when talking about pistol lethality. |
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12-02-2007, 12:55 AM | #9 |
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Mesa, AZ
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Re: HIGH-TECH-Arrived-Gun Damage
Bear in mind Ball-Pistol is the same shape now as in 1870's when cartridges introduced to pistols with a copper shell added. Long arms decreaed in diameter with new propellants. 1873 Govt. shaped like big pistol bullets but 7.92 Mauser spitzer design 1898 changed rifle bullets to needle nose, still in use today.
However as the esteemed lawyer frrom Iceland points out pistol MV is somewhat irrelevant, unlike rifles wherre it is definite killing additive. But to not get too far off-topic My point is .40/357SIG seem too powerful (.45 ACP seems a bit weak but ignore that opinion)
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Chard: The army doesn't like more than one disaster in a day. Bromhead: Looks bad in the newspapers and upsets civilians at their breakfast. |
12-02-2007, 01:07 AM | #10 | |
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Join Date: Apr 2007
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Re: HIGH-TECH-Arrived-Gun Damage
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.40 S&W is NOT superior to .45 (either ACP or GAP). As for 10mm.....its a popular round. Many people use it. I almost went 10mm myself....definitely more lethal than .45 ACP.
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guns, high tech, high-tech |
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