Insta-switch Alternative Abilities?

[transmetahuman]

Anyone have any ideas on how to price a set of AAs that you can switch between as a free action on your turn, rather than the Ready maneuver you need by the book? I was thinking maybe add the +20% Reduced Time to the 1/5th portion of the combined cost, but then what about triple or quadruple abilities? I don't think adding +20% to the entire combined cost is fair, because you could reduce the use of all the abilities, rather than just the switching between them, for that much.

I'm also considering letting Reflexive be used for certain sets of abilities. Any thoughts?

[Extrarius]

What downside is there to alternate abilities besides the need to switch? How is 'insta-switch alternate abilities' different from 'normal multiple abilities'?

[transmetahuman]

Originally Posted by Extrarius

What downside is there to alternate abilities besides the need to switch? How is 'insta-switch alternate abilities' different from 'normal multiple abilities'?

I'm not sure whether I'm interpreting your question correctly, but if I am... Obviously, the fact that you can't use one ability while the other is being used. The main reason for the cost break of AAs in the first place. If you can be invisible OR insubstantial but not both at the same time (frex), the fact that it'll take a Ready maneuver while you're invisible to switch to visible insubstantiality is a significant limitation but hardly as important as losing the invisibility.

Alternative Attacks can already switch instantly, once you've switched to an attack, so that ready maneuver can't be that important.

[JoelSammallahti]

Originally Posted by Extrarius

What downside is there to alternate abilities besides the need to switch? How is 'insta-switch alternate abilities' different from 'normal multiple abilities'?

If an ability is crippled, all its alternatives are likewise lost.

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by transmetahuman

Anyone have any ideas on how to price a set of AAs that you can switch between as a free action on your turn, rather than the Ready maneuver you need by the book? I was thinking maybe add the +20% Reduced Time to the 1/5th portion of the combined cost, but then what about triple or quadruple abilities? I don't think adding +20% to the entire combined cost is fair, because you could reduce the use of all the abilities, rather than just the switching between them, for that much.

I don't understand your problem with the pricing on multiple Alternate Abilities. You get an effective -80% limitation on the extra traits in an AltAb package. Part of the deal that comes with that is the requirement of a Ready Maneuver to switch between those traits that are not both 'attacks'. Reduced Time looks like the obvious choice.

[JoelSammallahti]

If you can't use abilities simultaneously, but don't need a ready action to switch, maybe you could use Temporary Disadvantage. Example:

Striking ST 10 (TK, -10%) [45]
Super Jump 2 (TK, -10%; Temporary Disadvantage: No Striking ST, -45%) [9]

[Gef]

Originally Posted by transmetahuman

Anyone have any ideas on how to price a set of AAs that you can switch between as a free action on your turn, rather than the Ready maneuver you need by the book? I was thinking maybe add the +20% Reduced Time to the 1/5th portion of the combined cost, but then what about triple or quadruple abilities? I don't think adding +20% to the entire combined cost is fair, because you could reduce the use of all the abilities, rather than just the switching between them, for that much.

I'm also considering letting Reflexive be used for certain sets of abilities. Any thoughts?

Thoughts, yeah. As in, I've thought about the same question, but I haven't come up with a good answer. Alternate Abilities are WAY cheap, can't be used together, and take a turn to switch. Alternate Abilities enhanced at a mere +20% are still WAY cheap and much less limited. Alternate Abilities at +40% are still pretty cheap and scarcely limited at all, because they can be interlaced; that is, you can switch between abilities at need on the same turn reflexively - At that point I'd require full cost.

Suppose I design a cat race with Catfall, Perfect Balance, Super Jump, and Silence - that's 40 points. Make them all Alternates to Purrfect Balance, and the cost drops to 20. Only now, on the rare occasion that I lose my balance, I can't switch to Catfall in time. If I'm in balance mode, I have to gather myself for a leap - and won't be able to land on that precarious ledge. If I can switch instantly between these abilities, what should they be worth, between 20 and 40?

After reading my own analysis, I'm inclined to allow a Quirk, one per ability, in the example above the net cost is 36 points. I can use these "Exclusive Ability" Quirks judiciously in race design, and PCs have to count them against the campaign disad limit.

GEF

[Lorka]

I dont think they should be AA at all GEF, it seems to me its powers that it can use all at once. Catfall you cannot make into an AA of Perfect Balance, since that is the same as saying it only works when you fall, it allready do that. If Silent dont work while Perfect Balance and / or Super Jump work then you have some weird creatures that can only sneak around when they are sitting still.

You shouldnt see AA as a way to get low cost powers, its a way to model one power with several advantages.

[vitruvian]

*If* there's a good reason to consider the abilities as Alternative Abilities (I haven't actually seen the list), then in order to allow free switching at the beginning of your turn I'd require Reduced Time (+20%) on all of them, *including* the base power. Only truly defensive abilities could be bumped up further to Reflexive, and this would have its own drawbacks, since your Damage Resistance could conceivably kick in even though you're thousands of feet up and would really like to keep your Flight on....

Seems fair. You still stand the chance of having all the abilities crippled or neutralized in one fell swoop, you can still use only one at a time (I'd never let you voluntarily use more than one in a given turn) - it's about the right cost for the utility. Now, the case Gef was talking about was more extreme - if you can Super Jump or Catfall to a highwire and immediately walk around with Perfect Balance, I'd say you can't call Perfect Balance one of the Alternates; it's clear that it's meant to be used at the same time as the others. However, I wouldn't have a problem with just Catfall and Super Jump being alternates of each other, with the possibility of taking Reflexive on the Catfall.

[Infornific]

Originally Posted by transmetahuman

Anyone have any ideas on how to price a set of AAs that you can switch between as a free action on your turn, rather than the Ready maneuver you need by the book? I was thinking maybe add the +20% Reduced Time to the 1/5th portion of the combined cost, but then what about triple or quadruple abilities? I don't think adding +20% to the entire combined cost is fair, because you could reduce the use of all the abilities, rather than just the switching between them, for that much.

I'm also considering letting Reflexive be used for certain sets of abilities. Any thoughts?

You could try buying the alternative abilities as Afflictions granting Advantages. That would allow you to treat it as an attack and thus avoid a Ready maneuver.

-DW