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Old 10-22-2017, 09:29 PM   #1
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Default What is the name of this limitation?

Hello, I have this issue:

I want a character to become insubstantial with the limitation "projection".

Then, I want the character to become a projection tethered to a person.

I am thinking of "No legs, sessile"... But what is this going to be?

A required disadvantage? Or A temporary disadvantage? Or what?

Finally, how much is this going to reduce the cost of insubstantiality?

Thank you!
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Old 10-23-2017, 07:43 AM   #2
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Default Re: What is the name of this limitation?

No Legs would be a Temporary Disadvantage while the Insubstantial was on. In this case, it would of course apply to the projection, not the real body (which is unconscious, and thus already immobile).

A Temporary Disad provides a Limitation discount based on the cost of the regular version of the Disad. See B115.

I think for this case, Sessile is more extreme than what you want. It would mean that the projected form couldn't move _at all_ under its own power. It would have to be carried by some other character, a bit problematic if it's insubstantial. (And note the RAW examples are a tree or a building, something that requires "considerable effort", not just something that's easily portable, like a rock or hand weapon. The anchor point wouldn't really move with your target person, which I assume is the intent.)

Does Possession or Clairsentience represent what the projected form is supposed to be able to do? What about Warp (especially if you can instantly appear at your target person)? There's a few ways to build "astral projection", depending on how you see the capabilities of the astral form.

I'd be tempted to borrow the "Anchored" Limitation from Warp; see the "Projection" rules on Powers 58 (under "Jumper"). Say you can move about in a 10-yard range from your anchor, to match the default sensory range for Clairsentience.

Last edited by Anaraxes; 10-23-2017 at 07:58 AM.
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Old 10-23-2017, 10:18 AM   #3
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Default Re: What is the name of this limitation?

No Legs (Portable) seems more appropriate than (Sessile) but either way might be an obtuse approach to this ability, which sounds more like the Rider limitation on Possession to me, but more detail is needed, I think.
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Old 10-23-2017, 02:04 PM   #4
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Default Re: What is the name of this limitation?

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Originally Posted by Anaraxes View Post
No Legs would be a Temporary Disadvantage while the Insubstantial was on. In this case, it would of course apply to the projection, not the real body (which is unconscious, and thus already immobile). A Temporary Disad provides a Limitation discount based on the cost of the regular version of the Disad. See B115. (...)
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No Legs (Portable) seems more appropriate than (Sessile) but either way might be an obtuse approach to this ability, which sounds more like the Rider limitation on Possession to me, but more detail is needed, I think.
Alright, let’s be more detailed:

I have 2 characters, "Ghost" & "Flint", my set-up has 2 parts:

Part 1 (ready)

Ghost melds with Flint:
Permeation
Human flesh & soul (5), only works on Specific Person (-10%), Meld 1 (150%), Cosmic Defense: Cannot be undone (50%) [13].

Then Ghost becomes a projection and leaves her body behind (which now is a part of Flint).
Insubstantiality
Affects substantial (100%), Partial Change (20%), Always On (-50%), Projection (-50%) [96]

Since Ghost and Flint are fused, when Flint moves, Ghost's physical body moves.

Ghost also receives Flint's damage, both have high pain threshold, so they don't roll HT (which might cancel the projection).

Part 2 (partial)

Ghost should look like a shadow over the shoulders of Flint. Ghost is only invisible to people which are not meld to another person as in part 1. But may be visible if willing to be visible:
Invisibility
Switchable (10%), Special Limitation (“Specific Situation People Only”) (-50%). [24]

Ghost can battle against insubstantial foes, while Flint battles the substantial ones. Ghost may parry some attacks for Flint or attack physical people too (including projectiles). Thus:
Innate attack (huge pierce)
Double blunt trauma (20%), Armor Divisor 2 (50%), Affect Substantial (100%), Melee Attack (-20%) [60]
Skills: Innate Attack & Parry Missile Weapons.
Sub-question: Since I have Melee on my Innate attack, is this a normal parry?

Ghost must be a projection anchored to Flint, if Flint moves the projection moves as Flint moves. If you push Flint, then you push the Projection along him. This is why I think sessile would do, because Ghost is tethered to Flint. And since Ghost won’t move while insubstantial, it should as well reduce its cost.

How about it?
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Old 10-23-2017, 02:11 PM   #5
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Default Re: What is the name of this limitation?

If the projection can move independently otherwise (and it has to, to even be meaningful) this is a probably nuisance effect or even a feature (since it comes with free move). I think the nuisance probably slightly outweighs the benefits, so I would call it a -5% nuisance effect. It is similar to the lighter than air modifier for Flight in that the character is subject to drift, but since another friendly character is in control of that drift most of the time it isn't nearly as limiting as being subject to wind.
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Old 10-23-2017, 03:59 PM   #6
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Default Re: What is the name of this limitation?

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Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
If the projection can move independently otherwise (and it has to, to even be meaningful) this is a probably nuisance effect or even a feature (since it comes with free move). I think the nuisance probably slightly outweighs the benefits, so I would call it a -5% nuisance effect. It is similar to the lighter than air modifier for Flight in that the character is subject to drift, but since another friendly character is in control of that drift most of the time it isn't nearly as limiting as being subject to wind.
I see, a nuisance effect; sound good!

So, if projection tethers Ghost to Flint, that's a -5%
And if it reduces basic move, could I take a -5% per reduced basic move?

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Old 10-23-2017, 04:20 PM   #7
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Default Re: What is the name of this limitation?

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So, if projection tethers Ghost to Flint, that's a -5%
And if it reduces basic move, could I take a -5% per reduced basic move?
So if Ghost isn't permeating Flint it has Move Y, if it projects the projection still has Move Y but if it is both permeating and projecting it has Move Y-X (and also has Flint-induced drift)? Honestly that detail seems so fiddly I personally would just forget about it in the interest of conservation of fiddly bits and instead reconceptualize as a maximum range for the projection.
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Old 10-23-2017, 06:54 PM   #8
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Default Re: What is the name of this limitation?

If you want to go the reduced move route, it has to be less than -5% per -1 move - you don't have -1 move all the time, just some of the time, and -1 move is 5 points, so as a temporary disadvantage would be -5%/level (capped at 80% points back of the equivalent move penalty).

I think you're looking at -3%. I might wave my hands and say -10% = halved move under said conditions.
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Old 10-23-2017, 08:28 PM   #9
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Default Re: What is the name of this limitation?

Astral Move is probably less than 5/points per level already, I'd think.
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Old 10-23-2017, 08:45 PM   #10
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Default Re: What is the name of this limitation?

Regarding "reduced move",

When Ghost becomes a projection, Ghost won't have to move at all.
She will spawn and remain attached to Flint but she will be able to parry and attack (this is why I originally picked sessile).

So, if Ghost is projecting, she has move 0 (or 1, if that's more appropriate) and when she is not projecting she has normal move.

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Last edited by Hide; 10-23-2017 at 08:49 PM.
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