Un-nerfed Mages

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by demonsbane

A bit off-topic, but I want to highlight these excellent observations.

Indeed, wouldn't it be better to officially remark this meaning of earned CPs?

I'd rather leave them as Kromm's house rules myself. I do not find them pleasing and I wouldn't want to push people towards running the game the way Kromm does.

Fred Brackin

[cmdicely]

Originally Posted by KlausPrinceOfTheUndeads

In 4E and with new traits pricement, mages are more overpowered than ever.

I'm not sure that's true, having lots of powers that are based on FP (or the same Energy Reserve, no matter what it is) reduces the effective utility of each in a way that's not accounted for in the normal Powers costs. Since the standard spell system relies on substantial FP costs as a key balance factor, one could argue that Powers is just systematically underpowered when building complexes of powers sharing a common energy reserve.

Also, while some effects are much cheaper when built as spells, the scaling of spells is in many cases less generous, which means that for really powerful effects, advantages/powers are more cost effective. Area Effect is one area where this is true, but even with missile effects it can be -- e.g., through the use of Rapid Fire (including the shotgun-like multiple projectile options and the Very Rapid Fire option).

[demonsbane]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

I'd rather leave them as Kromm's house rules myself. I do not find them pleasing and I wouldn't want to push people towards running the game the way Kromm does.

Fred Brackin

I understand your point.

Greetings

[blacksmith]

Originally Posted by Kromm

I'm getting good results with that rule in my campaign, too. The PC of a player who earns 100 points that she spends only on sure successes and critical successes ends up coming across as just as powerful in play as a PC who went for 100 points in permanent improvements. In a lot of ways, she comes across as more powerful, since her great victories always come at dramatically crucial moments (i.e., when she wants and/or really needs them), while the hero with the higher permanent point total might be more consistently impressive at the little things yet fall victim to a natural 18 on the "save the universe" roll and end his career in ignominy. Burning a few points to make that Resurrection spell a critical success that costs 0 FP and bring back a dead comrade sure seems more powerful than having three extra spells that you can't afford the FP to cast . . . and if it's the Grand Duke that you raise, you might get more points back in free Status and Wealth than you spent on the success roll!

In the burning a mount thread it would seem that the PC who tires to get the free Resurrection by the critical success simply dies with out bringing anyone back to life.

[deathsaudit]

Originally Posted by Bruno

You've also been tangled up in Martial Arts, and we know that SJG needs more Kromms to spread around various projects.

(I still think someone needs to take High TL +4, Super Gadgeteer, and Multimillionaire 6, and then invent a way to relentlessly duplicate the Krommly Presence so we can have one Kromm for each project...)

It's cheaper to take Affliction Duplication or a gadget with Duplication and give it to Kromm.
This might help the OP.

[Nosforontu]

Keep in mind I am just eyeballing the problem mentioned in the thread and I haven't actually tried out the following suggestions yet as my concern tends to be in trying to keep the mage from dominating games or character designs due to its flexibility rather than beefing it up. Also keep in mind my magic book is at a friends house right now so all of these ideas should be taken with a grain of salt.

A couple basic ideas.
1) A technique for either individual spells or perhaps for the entire college that reduces the fatigue cost for the spell by one for every level you have in the technique. You can either leave it as an uncapped technique or put whatever cap you want on it.

2) Add new V. Hard versions of spells that are identical in every way to another spell except it uses a more favorable range category and requires the other as a preq.

3) Reduce Range penalty technique again either as a per spell technique or an entire college technique that reduces the range penalty by one for the spell for each level you have the technique at.

4) Use the precedent set by the various brawling skills (karate judo brawling etc) of giving small bonuses for having a skill of DX +1 or DX +2 in the skill. In this case you might increase range category for regular spells if your skill in it is at IQ +2 and for damage dealing spells you could increase the damage per die by +1 if the spell is at IQ +1 or by +2 damage if your skill level is at IQ +2

Hope these ideas help

edited for a couple more ideas

[Gef]

To the OP, if still relevant.

I run a high fantasy game where 200pts is coming into master wizard level but the big guns have 300 or so. The big battlefield artillery spell is rain of fire (or hail of stones), cast over a huge area...like 300' diameter. 2d6 per turn for 60 turns to a whole company of soldiers! Of course it takes 200 energy...which costs 120 points. (That assumes 80% in limitations, but familiar is worth -40% and Fire Only is another -40%.) Master wizards use Throw Spell and Telecast to deal with range penalties, although journeymen are less likely to have mastered metamagic. As a house rule, telecast doesn't always look like an eye...it looks like something cool associated with the wizard's guild or magical tradition. The main battle wizard in an army can blast off several of those big Rain of Fire spells, because every apprentice learns Lend Energy, and a few journeyman with an energy reserve of 30 (a mere 18 point advantage) can top off the master in no time. I've had small unit engagements (i.e., the party vs. similar group) where most of the action was spellcasting. I have a campaign condition which prohibits teleportation, but the PCs use telepathy to call for help when they need it and get Lend Energy telecast. I have some house rules to make magic more interesting but haven't needed any to make it more powerful.

GEF

[blacksmith]

Originally Posted by Gef

To the OP, if still relevant.

I run a high fantasy game where 200pts is coming into master wizard level but the big guns have 300 or so. The big battlefield artillery spell is rain of fire (or hail of stones), cast over a huge area...like 300' diameter. 2d6 per turn for 60 turns to a whole company of soldiers! Of course it takes 200 energy...which costs 120 points. (That assumes 80% in limitations, but familiar is worth -40% and Fire Only is another -40%.) Master wizards use Throw Spell and Telecast to deal with range penalties, although journeymen are less likely to have mastered metamagic. As a house rule, telecast doesn't always look like an eye...it looks like something cool associated with the wizard's guild or magical tradition. The main battle wizard in an army can blast off several of those big Rain of Fire spells, because every apprentice learns Lend Energy, and a few journeyman with an energy reserve of 30 (a mere 18 point advantage) can top off the master in no time. I've had small unit engagements (i.e., the party vs. similar group) where most of the action was spellcasting. I have a campaign condition which prohibits teleportation, but the PCs use telepathy to call for help when they need it and get Lend Energy telecast. I have some house rules to make magic more interesting but haven't needed any to make it more powerful.

GEF

And when the foe has resist fire cast on them? Being so limited to something that is relatively easy to counter is not a good idea.