Ranged attacks against high dodge

[adaman14]

I know that Martial Arts addressed the issue where an enemy with high dodge might be too hard to hit. The solution was to allow deceptive attacks with ranged. I was surprised to see that option missing from DFRPG. Is anyone on the forum using the DA with ranged attacks as per Martial Arts?

[luzbel]

I do and is fine. I think is a must. Martial Arts book improves the DFRPG a lot.

[Rasputin]

You don’t need it. Move and Attack does the job. Heroic Archer means you take no Bulk penalty with that.

[adaman14]

Rasputin, how does move and attack solve the issue of the enemy dodging and how does anything with archer help the wizard using innate attack to try to hit with a fireball? Skill 14 fireball and skill 14 innate attack against a dodge 11 will only hit 30% of the time. Considering DR of monster and FP of wizard it seems futile.

Actually, innate attack would need to be increased to 16 or 17 to yield any better chance to hit using DA. Otherwise the chance to hit with innate attack is reduced and the overall chance to hit considering roll for spell then roll for IA, then enemy rolls dodge = 30% chance or there about. Innate attack of 17 with 2 DA yields a chance to hit of about 46%. I am considering giving innate attack an automatic -2 to enemy dodge.

[Kalzazz]

Move and Attack against high dodge is a Team exercise

First your slugger with good skill, a reach 2 weapon, and sacrificial parry is placed next to the enemy

Second your shooter does a move and attack to shoot the enemy in the back of the skull

They get -2 to defend since run around and their shield does not apply

Third your shooter ends their turn next to the Slugger (The shooter can't parry as they have hands full of bow, and can't retreat as did move and Attack, so they rely on friend slugger to keep them alive)

[Expy]

I don't like allowing deceptive attacks from ranged, you already can't parry arrows so all you have is one block a turn and dodges to keep you safe, and dodges usually suck. I don't think the niche 'what if a guy has 16 dodge' is worth making life miserable for all the poor goblins who now have no chance at all at defending themselves with their poor 10 dodge the scout is reducing to 6 without even sweating p But that's just me.

If a target is really good at dodging, box them in! Surround them! Or blast them with a status effect or AoE! (Explosive spells, Kiai, Hinder, Intimidate, Stench, Thunderclap, Roundabout, Command "Stay Still!"). If you manage to chip them down to 1/3 hp or fatigue then their dodge is halved, then they are really hosed.

Heck, even a regular damaging spell (not missile) would do good. Can't dodge a frostbite to the face!

[Balor Patch]

At [15] per, Dodge is expensive and ought to be worth the points.

[David Johansen]

It's one of those places where earlier editions worked better. The built in +3 to defenses in fourth edition replaces PD 3 from most armour but armour increases encumbrance and reduces dodge so it's somewhat self correcting in those editions. In the example given that dodge of 11 would usually be an 8. If you've got repeating firearms it's not a huge problem because you can just shoot them again right away but with bows, crossbows, and muskets it's a bigger problem.

In any case, if you want to make combats faster and more decisive, strip out that free +3.

[Eric Funk]

Originally Posted by adaman14

Rasputin, how does move and attack solve the issue of the enemy dodging and how does anything with archer help the wizard using innate attack to try to hit with a fireball? Skill 14 fireball and skill 14 innate attack against a dodge 11 will only hit 30% of the time. Considering DR of monster and FP of wizard it seems futile.

That is why my party's wizards invest in
Psychic Guidance* [1] for their favourite Missile spells so they are targetted with SPELL SKILL (e.g., IQ+Magery) instead of a DX-based skill... (considering the meta wizard has DX8)... And Deceptive Attacks (MA121)


* GURPS Thaumatology Styles p.29 , basically Attribute Substitution, GURPS Powerup2Perks p.15 **

**We do limit MAGIC:Perks based on the recommendations in GTS (Above) -- more or less 1 MAGIC perk per 20 points in spells.


Option # 2 is switch to Explosive Fireball which is +4 to hit (the ground at the foe's feet) and the foe can't defend as they are not the target...


EDIT: Oops, I wrote this in GURPS terms but option 2 still works.

[Eric Funk]

Originally Posted by Expy

I don't like allowing deceptive attacks from ranged, you already can't parry arrows so all you have is one block a turn and dodges to keep you safe, and dodges usually suck.

If a target is really good at dodging, box them in!

You can parry missile weapons -- the Parry Missile Weapons skill B212 (DF Adventurers p.33). Let's say you know it at skill 12 with Combat Reflexes you can parry arrows out of the air with + modifier for 3+(12/2)+1 (CR)+4DB for a large +1 enchanted shield(100$) =14 or less. You can also get +1 to active defenses (such as PMW) if you roll Preconative Parry.

You can also parry spell missiles with Parry Missile Weapons (KROMM):
https://forums.sjgames.com/showpost....8&postcount=25


Also, use Area spells below a foe to reduce their effective defense and attack potential: Grease, Ice slick, glue, Tangle Growth to start. Put your team in Darkness (up to -10 for foes to attack in, no penalty to see out).


EDIT (oops, written for GURPS which only changes one page reference and means Ice Slick is not in DF:Spells)