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Old 09-21-2020, 01:05 PM   #1
JohnPaulB
 
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Default Herbalist Talent

I felt that TFT had a lack of someone who was not a Doctor (physicker) but could still heal non-magically. I also felt that an Herbalist talent was missing. I wanted it to be of the hedgemage level with small time and cost investment and equally low game affects compared to wizards or alchemists.

IQ 10
Herbalist (1): A Herbalist is familiar with the affects that plants can have on the body, soul and mind. It is cousin to the Naturalist and Physicker with a little bit of Cook thrown in for good measure. Herbalist deals with culinary herbs (& spices) or therapeutic herbs. Knows where to find herbs or grows them in her garden.
With access to the proper books (recipes), materials (herbs), and facilities (kitchen), can make the therapeutic remedies as though she were an Alchemist (see p. 147): elixirs, unguents, aromas, and the like. These remedies are not magical.

Herbalists get +1 reaction rolls from Cooks.

An Herbalist workshop is a simple kitchen with at least $200 worth of equipment, cooking tools and containers, books, herbs, etc.


An Herbalist who is also a Chemist is an Apothecary. She can create therapeutic products that can last for years.

An herbalist can join with a shaman to create therapeutic concoctions for the soul like aroma therapies.
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Old 09-21-2020, 01:15 PM   #2
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Default Re: Herbalist Talent remedy

Here is an example of an herbalist remedy:

Betterment Draught: a dose gives the recipient the ability to recover one more hit point of damage that night in addition to the every two days with proper medical care (or without the care if an adjST roll is successful. The more healthy you are, the better it works). [See Recover from Injury ITL p9] If taken more than three times in 7 days, side effects (determined by GM) will ensue. Requires 1 pound of fresh therapeutic herbs and 1 day; costs $50.
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Old 09-21-2020, 01:15 PM   #3
Chris Rice
 
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Default Re: Herbalist Talent

I like the idea but I find the execution is wordy and not very clear. I also don’t like that it references other Talents.

I’d probably allow them to make a few concoctions: Healing Potion. Sleeping Draught. Something to purify food and water etc.

They would need to be able to find the correct ingredients to do so.
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Old 09-21-2020, 01:56 PM   #4
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Default Re: Herbalist Talent

Herb Efficacy Duration table

Fresh Cut
30 minutes to create
1 to 2 days efficacy from time it was cut.
State of the Herb - just cut or pulled herbs with no processing and little preparation.
No kitchen needed.

Shelf prepared herbs Prepared = boiled, brewed, crushed, powdered, juiced, etc. Very simple processing.
2 hours to create
3d6 weeks from the time it was prepared.
State of the Herb - prepared to be kept for later use, but not processed.
Kitchen and tools needed

Dried Herbs Dried = removing the moisture in order to preserve them. Various ways to do this: open air, smoked, leaching, etc.
3 days to create
1 year from the date it was dried
State of the Herb - Raw herb is dried and lasts if kept in sealed container away from moisture.
Kitchen and tools needed

Processed herbs Processed = This is the action of distilling, cooking, mixing, etc. using chemical process in basic form. Much more complex preparations.
1d6 weeks create
3d6 years from the time it was processed
State of the Herb - Herbs processed into stable usable form. If actively kept from deteriorating.
Kitchen and 'lab' needed (tools that a simple chemist shop would use)
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Old 09-21-2020, 02:42 PM   #5
phiwum
 
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Default Re: Herbalist Talent

The idea of an herbalist is not bad, but I fear that the details of herbal preparations are a bit complicated for my taste. If an herbalist is supposed to be something like an Alchemist Lite, I wouldn't go for very complicated rules.

The Betterment Draught isn't a bad idea at all. A simple aid to natural healing is sensible.
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Old 09-22-2020, 09:39 AM   #6
larsdangly
 
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Default Re: Herbalist Talent

Another approach could be to create a few herbalism 'recipes' analogous to those for Chemist and Alchemist, and then assign knowledge of those recipes to the Naturalist talent.
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Old 09-27-2020, 12:13 AM   #7
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Default Re: Herbalist Talent

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Rice View Post
I like the idea but I find the execution is wordy and not very clear. I also don’t like that it references other Talents. I’d probably allow them to make a few concoctions: Healing Potion. Sleeping Draught. Something to purify food and water etc. They would need to be able to find the correct ingredients to do so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
The idea of an herbalist is not bad, but I fear that the details of herbal preparations are a bit complicated for my taste. If an herbalist is supposed to be something like an Alchemist Lite, I wouldn't go for very complicated rules. The Betterment Draught isn't a bad idea at all. A simple aid to natural healing is sensible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by larsdangly View Post
Another approach could be to create a few herbalism 'recipes' analogous to those for Chemist and Alchemist, and then assign knowledge of those recipes to the Naturalist talent.
Thank you for your comments/suggestions. I have revamped my Herbalist Talent.


IQ 9
Herbalist (1): An Herbalist is familiar with the affects that plants can have on the body, soul and mind. Herbalist deals with culinary herbs (& spices) or therapeutic herbs. Grows herbs in her garden or knows where to find them (3d6 vs IQ once per hour to locate.*) Can make non-magical remedies from freshly cut herbs (lasts 3 days).

Naturalist costs (1) if you already have Herbalist.


* some better game mechanics need to be worked out to find herbs.



Herbalists’ Potions
To be added to Chemist and Alchemists Potions (ITL p 146)

Betterment Draught: a dose recovers one point of ST after a nights sleep. Taking more than one per day will cause vomiting and losing 1 point. May still heal via “Time” (ITL page 9). Requires 1 pound of fresh therapeutic herbs and 1 day; costs $20.

*Insect Repellent - Flying: works as avert item on flying insects. Affects 1 megahex, lasts 1 day. Requires 1 pound of rare herbs, ¼ dose of Insect Poison, and 1 day. Cost $50.

* Insect Repellent - Crawling: works as avert item on crawling insects. Affects 1 megahex, lasts 1 day. Requires 1 pound of rare herbs, ¼ dose of Insect Poison, and 1 day. Cost $25

* Avian Repellent: works as avert item on birds. Affects 1 megamegahex, lasts 12 hours. Requires 1 pound of citronella and peppermint, ¼ dose of Reptile Poison, and 2 days. Cost $50

*Mammal Repellent: works as avert item on IQ 5 or below mammals. Affects 1 megamegahex, lasts 3d hours. Requires 1 pound of rare herbs, 1 ounce human blood, and 1 day. Cost $25

Ancestral Smudge: 1 smoking dose gives ritualist the possibility (Crit success on 3d6 vs IQ) of contacting the character's Ancestrals (Unlife p.9) Requires 1/2 pound of Sage, Cedar, Sweetgrass or similar herbs, and proper ceremony. Cost $5

Increase Speed: 1 dose gives +2 MA to recipient for 12 turns, then fatigues them 1 point. If taken more than twice per week, make ST roll or become addicted. Requires 1/2 pound of Ephedra, and 2 rare herbs, ¼ dose of Increase Strength, and 1 day. $100.

Increase Initiative: 1 dose gives user +1 on initiative roll and increases adjDX by +3 for purposes of order of combat. This lasts for five sequential initiatives, at the end of which the figure goes last during the action sequence. If taken more than once every other day, DX will be at -1 for the day because of jitters. Requires 1/2 pound of processed java-nuts, 1/4 pound of darjeeling leaves and 2 hours. Cost $20

Medicinal Dressing: 1 “dose” treats one wound, whether piercing, crushing, burning, etc. Dressing is either soaked in the therapeutic herbs or therapeutic herbs are applied directly to wound and wrapped. Dressing needs to be changed 4 times in one hour (that is the one ‘dose’), after which an adjST roll is made. If successful, 1 point is healed. Note: Use of Medicinal Dressing is in addition to any other healing for that wound. Requires 1 pound of therapeutic herbs, strips of clean linen, and 1 hour. Cost $10.

Nostrums and Infusions**
Tonic
Cough Medicine
Fever Reducer
Binders and Soothers


*Can be used to make a gas bomb, per ITL p145.

**These can be found in Hexagram #3 article Easy Sneezy by Stefan Jones (p21)
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Old 09-27-2020, 08:37 AM   #8
phiwum
 
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Default Re: Herbalist Talent

I like the changes. Much simpler and a good list of "potions".

I wonder a bit about balance. Something like Mammal Repellent sure makes camping outdoors a lot easier.

The ancestral smudge description is a little oddly worded. A critical success against IQ is, what, 3, 4 or 5? A critical success is a critical success, regardless of the attribute you're rolling. A higher IQ guy is no better than a moron, unless I'm mistaken in what you mean by "critical success". An alternative for this one would to give a boost to seance rolls if you played with such rules, which can be found in Shadekeep's Apocrypha, but I don't know how easy these would be to amend.

I do like the inclusion of something for BOU.

Medicinal dressing is good. How long does each application take? I'm guessing five minutes. If so, that's a serious cost in time in most situations, which is appropriate. I'm reckoning the person can't engage in strenuous activity for the entire hour (combat, climbing, etc.) but can do other things. The use of adjST is good too.

I'm not too sure about Increase Initiative. A party wide benefit from an herbal concoction is a bit odd.

Lastly, I haven't thought about costs. These are much cheaper than chemical potions, but of more limited use. Anticipating abuse is the hard part. The repellents in particular look like they could be abused, but outside the labyrinth, a GM could declare that the wind diffuses them earlier than twelve hours.

Anyway, the simplification is an improvement. Rules for finding the herbs are lacking, but the same is true for other hunting and gathering. How do you deal with someone who wants to find a poisonous snake? Random searches until he rolls an encounter is lame if he's out snake hunting. Instead, there has to be a daily (say) roll in locating a snake that is independent of encounter tables. It should be modified by setting and talents like Naturalist, Woodsman and Tracking. Ain't no rules for that, so I make some ad hoc rules on the fly and on success play out the combat. (The combat against most herbs is admittedly one-sided.)
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Old 09-27-2020, 11:13 AM   #9
larsdangly
 
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Default Re: Herbalist Talent

Excellent; thanks for that, and I intend to drop most of its details into my existing herbalism house rules. It looks as though a Naturalist pays the same for Herbalism talent as anyone else, but an herbalist pays less to become a naturalist. Was your intention that Herbalism is a subset of Naturalist, so all Naturalists also know Herbalism?
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Old 09-27-2020, 09:35 PM   #10
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Default Re: Herbalist Talent

Quote:
Originally Posted by larsdangly View Post
It looks as though a Naturalist pays the same for Herbalism talent as anyone else, but an herbalist pays less to become a naturalist. Was your intention that Herbalism is a subset of Naturalist, so all Naturalists also know Herbalism?
I first had Herbalist at IQ10. When I took the suggestions to streamline, I thought I would split it into Herbalist I and Herbalist II. But when I looked at Naturalist again, I realized that it says "knows about herbs". So I lowered Herbalist to IQ9. This fits better with a Neanderthal's lower IQ level and that they don't use magic. Also I didn't expect herbalists to know specifically about the rest of nature. Thus Herbalist at 1 CP becomes a stepping stone for Naturalist; or just spend 2 CP on Naturalist and get Herbalist. However, A player could always limit what the talent does, so if your Naturalist knows 'about' a certain herb, he might never have come in contact with it and thus might not be able to make a concoction with that herb.


Quote:
Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
I wonder a bit about balance. Something like Mammal Repellent sure makes camping outdoors a lot easier.

The ancestral smudge description is a little oddly worded. A critical success against IQ is, what, 3, 4 or 5? A critical success is a critical success, regardless of the attribute you're rolling. A higher IQ guy is no better than a moron, unless I'm mistaken in what you mean by "critical success". An alternative for this one would to give a boost to seance rolls if you played with such rules, which can be found in Shadekeep's Apocrypha, but I don't know how easy these would be to amend.

I do like the inclusion of something for BOU.

Medicinal dressing is good. How long does each application take? I'm guessing five minutes. If so, that's a serious cost in time in most situations, which is appropriate. I'm reckoning the person can't engage in strenuous activity for the entire hour (combat, climbing, etc.) but can do other things. The use of adjST is good too.

I'm not too sure about Increase Initiative. A party wide benefit from an herbal concoction is a bit odd.

Lastly, I haven't thought about costs. These are much cheaper than chemical potions, but of more limited use. Anticipating abuse is the hard part. The repellents in particular look like they could be abused, but outside the labyrinth, a GM could declare that the wind diffuses them earlier than twelve hours.

Anyway, the simplification is an improvement. Rules for finding the herbs are lacking, but the same is true for other hunting and gathering. How do you deal with someone who wants to find a poisonous snake? Random searches until he rolls an encounter is lame if he's out snake hunting. Instead, there has to be a daily (say) roll in locating a snake that is independent of encounter tables. It should be modified by setting and talents like Naturalist, Woodsman and Tracking. Ain't no rules for that, so I make some ad hoc rules on the fly and on success play out the combat. (The combat against most herbs is admittedly one-sided.)
Regarding the repellents: Perhaps the victim gets an IQ roll or perhaps an ST roll to overcome the effects. Thus Repellents might not be a guarantee of averting beasts. And perhaps the duration could be done in dice rolled time that the GM rolls, like 2d6 hours effectiveness. Also, these are obviously lesser variations of the Chemist Potions.

With Smudge, I wanted to include an example of spiritual effects (soul) that herbs might produce. Having read Unlife, I thought that Ancestor Worship might be appropriate. I think Ancestor Worship should NOT be a telephone call away, so I made it difficult. But I agree that the wording is odd. That entry needs work. Shadekeep's variation might do.

What is BOU?

Your description of how long it would take for Medicinal Dressing application fits my thoughts.

As far as costs for the 'potions', I wanted them cheaper, easier to make and less powerful than Chemist Potions. The cost of these items might be too inexpensive for what I am charging. The use of a 1/4 chemist potion in some of the concoctions perhaps should be factored in.

Taking the suggestion that the talent should be simplified, I stripped searching for herbs to IQ roll. However, I too am not happy with that. I need to locate my TFT Beyond The Mountain supplements. They had description on of hunting.

I am thinking of making a "Herbalist II" as an APOTHECARY. This would be an Herbalist with Chemist background that could make herbal drugs. These herbal items would be processed, portable and have a very long shelf life. As a near equal of Chemist, the 'potions' could also be more powerful and even possibly magical. Apothecary would probably only be supported in large cities, unless they are doing field research.
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