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Old 12-11-2018, 03:19 AM   #1
evileeyore
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Default [Martial Arts] Roll With Blow - Passive or Active?

Let me break this into the questions I've got:

1 - Is Roll With Blow a 'defense'? Is it denied if you are denied defenses?
2 - Do you have to know the attack was incoming, or can you roll with surprise hits?


I've always treated it as an Active Defense*, but it has recently been pointed out to me that there is no such stipulation in the 4e RAW write up.


* Because in 3e it was only available if you missed a defense roll.
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Old 12-11-2018, 03:49 AM   #2
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Default Re: [Martial Arts] Roll With Blow - Passive or Active?

Good question.
Since it requires active effort I would not allow it if your not allowed a defense.
Otherwise, Im not sure
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Old 12-11-2018, 04:28 AM   #3
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Default Re: [Martial Arts] Roll With Blow - Passive or Active?

good question, given it's a cinematic technique (and IMO a pretty powerful one as a default Skill-2 roll with no negative mods and no counter) I'd be tempted to say if you have no active defense option than you can't do this.

But I guess like most cinematic techniques it depends on what kind of feel you want for your combat.


On thing I might be tempted to do with the technique in general is to limiting it by saying it only works for cr attacks based on Thr damage not Sw.
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Last edited by Tomsdad; 12-11-2018 at 08:37 AM.
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Old 12-11-2018, 07:53 AM   #4
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Default Re: [Martial Arts] Roll With Blow - Passive or Active?

Its trigger condition is being hit by a crushing attack. That's it, that's all. There are no further restrictions on when you're allowed to roll against it.

The other game mechanic to which it comes closest is Mind Block (p. B210), in that it's an always-on "discipline" that kicks in as a last ditch if you botch or don't get a defense . . . if you can make the roll. Like Mind Block, Roll with Blow doesn't totally stop the Bad Stuff, it just blunts the impact a little.
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Old 12-11-2018, 07:57 AM   #5
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Default Re: [Martial Arts] Roll With Blow - Passive or Active?

I don't know about completely banning swing, but you could add that -2 swing attacks that some of the combat skills (boxing I think) have for their parry.

All-Out Attacks were later clarified to not allow resisting certain quick contests in Technical Grappling (except ST as Mass) so them also not allowing Roll With Blow would make sense. It's not something I'd expect Berserkers or Zombies to use.
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Old 12-11-2018, 08:41 AM   #6
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Default Re: [Martial Arts] Roll With Blow - Passive or Active?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plane View Post
I don't know about completely banning swing, but you could add that -2 swing attacks that some of the combat skills (boxing I think) have for their parry.
I like that, nice!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plane View Post
All-Out Attacks were later clarified to not allow resisting certain quick contests in Technical Grappling (except ST as Mass) so them also not allowing Roll With Blow would make sense. It's not something I'd expect Berserkers or Zombies to use.
thing is it's not a QC, I guess it's going to come down to how inherent and automatic you run it as being. I agree with your point about zombies etc
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Last edited by Tomsdad; 12-11-2018 at 11:25 AM.
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Old 12-11-2018, 08:47 AM   #7
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Default Re: [Martial Arts] Roll With Blow - Passive or Active?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
Its trigger condition is being hit by a crushing attack. That's it, that's all. There are no further restrictions on when you're allowed to roll against it.
Okay, I get that it isn't a defense... but if you're Stunned does Roll With Blow suffer any penalties (as Mind Block does)?

I don't know, probably just my knee jerk 3eism.
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Old 12-11-2018, 11:24 AM   #8
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Default Re: [Martial Arts] Roll With Blow - Passive or Active?

Things that give penalties to rolls give their usual penalties . . . If you have a DX penalty for whatever reason, that'll affect Roll with Blow. Stun doesn't give a DX penalty; it penalizes active defenses. Some specific abilities are penalized for stun, too, but this one isn't; if it were, it would say so.

The point is, Roll with Blow isn't something you "use" in the classic sense, and isn't closely related to active defenses. It's more like DR with an activation roll.
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Old 12-11-2018, 11:33 AM   #9
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Default Re: [Martial Arts] Roll With Blow - Passive or Active?

How would it work with being grappled. Obviously any penalty to DX/skill your suffering under while being grappled will apply to the roll.

But if you being held in place swapping more knockback for less damage seems hard to work (I guess that how the penalty works)

But thinking about it how does knock back work if you are grappled full stop? If I grabbed some chap and the punch him hard enough to knock him back, do I break my own grapple on him? If the chap can't move the knocked back distance, would it count as a collision?
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Old 12-11-2018, 01:22 PM   #10
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Default Re: [Martial Arts] Roll With Blow - Passive or Active?

Unless the grappler wants to let go of you as a free action, perhaps whatever he's holding could be treated as a collective higher-mass object as him by totalling up his current ST with the max HP of the object or person? If that's how you'd resolve "I push-kick his shield" then it seems like how you'd resolve this.

That sounds kind of like a disarm so maybe knockback applied to held objects/persons could somehow morph into a disarm or "break free" attack on the wielder.

Of course, wielding heavy weapons doesn't normally give bonuses against knockback when the wielder is hit, despite the added inertia, so I could be wrong in thinking that being wielded gives a weapon more inertia against knockback.

You'd probably need to be strong enough to carry the person grappling you to treat them as your own gear and increase collective knockback. A dragon being grappled by a hobbit shouldn't be unable to Roll With Blow of an incoming hammer, but a hobbit being grappled by a dragon should be penalized to the point where it isn't feasible.

Gun-Fu 11 "Ranged Disarms" introduces an alternative to the usual means of resolving disarms, instead of a Quick Contest of weapon skills (with option for either to sub ST for DX), if the attacker hits and the target doesn't parry/dodge, instead of the QC there is a one-sided ST roll by the target to maintain their grip with -1 per 2 points of damage.

This was designed for guns but I don't see why you couldn't use that option for all disarms, and this would be an easy way to resolve whether or not people maintain their grip on something.

-1 per 2 points of damage also resembles Technical Grappling's control points... coincidence?

Last edited by Plane; 12-11-2018 at 09:45 PM.
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