Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Board and Card Games > Ogre and G.E.V.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-24-2018, 12:35 PM   #21
TheAmishStig
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Lancaster, PA
Default Re: Vulcans and Friends counter sheets

Quote:
Originally Posted by ColBosch View Post
While I was against their inclusion as the standard Ninja rules in the main rulebook, I would not mind seeing them as options in a future project.
They were pretty fiddly [there's GP speaking through me again] as written, but some of the ideas were really neat and I'd like to see them come back.

Ultimately, I'd like to see what returns standardized around your 'Internal Bay' idea (I think it was yours, I may have just given you credit for someone else's idea), and discrete 'Ninja Drone' tokens.

Which I had a thought for how to standardize capacities. It's a little fiddly for my liking still, but standardizes 'internal cargo capacity' across any unit that would have the capacity to do 'in, not on', massaged until existing rules [Vulcan and Truck] wouldn't have to be changed. If you're game I'll hit you up in private.
__________________
Andy Mull
MIB Agent #0460
Ogre 134th Battalion

Lancaster, PA
Imgur: https://agent0460.imgur.com/
TheAmishStig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2018, 02:56 PM   #22
offsides
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Cheltenham, PA
Default Re: Vulcans and Friends counter sheets

The good thing about modular Ogres (Ninja or otherwise) is that you have a nearly infinite set of options and in some ways it makes logical sense that these giant factories using templates could whip up various combinations of equipment to customize an Ogre for any given job.

The bad thing about modular Ogres is that it gets very complicated VERY quickly, and being fiddly is the least of your problems. Not the least of which is non-standard record sheets and play balance.

Overall, Ogre is incredibly simple in its structure, making things like modular Ogres a poor choice for inclusion in the core rules. If it doesn't meet KISS, it's probably too complicated. That said, I personally LOVE fiddly, detailed optional/alternate rules, and would be happy to see them (and even other modular equipment rules!) as ether an Ogrezine article or some other optional supplement. They say variety is the spice of life, so why not spice of some Ogres? :P
__________________
Joshua Megerman, SJGames MIB #5273 - Ogre AI Testing Division
offsides is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2018, 04:16 PM   #23
TheAmishStig
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Lancaster, PA
Default Re: Vulcans and Friends counter sheets

Quote:
Originally Posted by offsides View Post
The good thing about modular Ogres (Ninja or otherwise) is that you have a nearly infinite set of options and in some ways it makes logical sense that these giant factories using templates could whip up various combinations of equipment to customize an Ogre for any given job.

The bad thing about modular Ogres is that it gets very complicated VERY quickly, and being fiddly is the least of your problems. Not the least of which is non-standard record sheets and play balance.

Overall, Ogre is incredibly simple in its structure, making things like modular Ogres a poor choice for inclusion in the core rules. If it doesn't meet KISS, it's probably too complicated. That said, I personally LOVE fiddly, detailed optional/alternate rules, and would be happy to see them (and even other modular equipment rules!) as ether an Ogrezine article or some other optional supplement. They say variety is the spice of life, so why not spice of some Ogres? :P
Exactly: Ogre is defined by its elegance, if it ends up with a [fnord]load of special case rules that muck up the game and slow it down, it ceases to be Ogre. It's why I'm trying to think about it in terms of 'mission modules'...a completely separate entity from the Ninja itself, and am limiting it [in my mind] to the Ninjas, because of their highly specialized roles.

One module lets it mount a Shuriken. Another module might let it mount a Bushin [an LT that, when deployed, sensors can't tell the difference between it or a real Ninja until the shooting starts]. Who knows what anyone else will dream up.

The bit about cargo capacity is something someone [I think ColBosch, when he made the Golem thread] initially proposed for de-fiddlying the Vulcan / Ninja / Golem cargo rules into a single unified "internal cargo bay" rule, as right now what any given unit can carry within itself is completely arbitrary. When inspiration strikes, I've picked at looking for patterns and doing the math.

I've got it to where it sounds strange at first read [because 'Size 1' is everything up to and including a box truck], but works with the existing stats for all currently-canon cargo carriers [Truck, Hovertruck, Vulcan, arguably Ninja, and Train]. But since I don't want to steal his thunder, he gets first dibs.
__________________
Andy Mull
MIB Agent #0460
Ogre 134th Battalion

Lancaster, PA
Imgur: https://agent0460.imgur.com/
TheAmishStig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2018, 04:55 PM   #24
ColBosch
 
ColBosch's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Default Re: Vulcans and Friends counter sheets

Yes, I was the most recent to propose a unified "internal cargo bay" rule. (I can't discount that someone else might have come up with it before.) I think hammering out something that covers all units that carry stuff inside them would reduce fiddliness and the need for special rules, and ultimately save wordcount and frustration.
ColBosch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2018, 06:01 PM   #25
wolf90
 
wolf90's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Default Re: Vulcans and Friends counter sheets

Quote:
Originally Posted by ColBosch View Post
While I was against their inclusion as the standard Ninja rules in the main rulebook, I would not mind seeing them as options in a future project.
Quote:
Originally Posted by offsides View Post
That said, I personally LOVE fiddly, detailed optional/alternate rules, and would be happy to see them (and even other modular equipment rules!) as ether an Ogrezine article or some other optional supplement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAmishStig View Post
They were pretty fiddly [there's GP speaking through me again] as written, but some of the ideas were really neat and I'd like to see them come back. <snip> If you're game I'll hit you up in private.
Well, I now know what my article for (the entirely theoretical, at this time,) Ogrezine III will be!

And by all means, knock on my digital door!

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAmishStig View Post
The bit about cargo capacity is something someone [I think ColBosch, when he made the Golem thread] initially proposed <snip> But since I don't want to steal his thunder, he gets first dibs.
You two work it out, because I think there might be something there that is entirely different from the Ninja stuff and well worth seeing.

Which brings me to a comment on Ogrezine and submissions. If you have a great idea, write it up and send it in. Don't worry about if we're pushing for a current issue of Ogrezine or not. I will find a way to use good material. And perhaps more importantly, this is a little bit of a chicken or the egg issue - you don't need to wait for an Ogrezine to be announced to produce articles; quite the opposite, in fact. Having a fistful of great articles makes it much easier for me to promote the idea of another Ogrezine! So keep them coming!

D.
__________________
Proud sponsor of Ogre KS $4.5k Sheet #3 - Bringing the Vatican Guard, a Tiger-striped mercenary unit, and of course pink GEVs, to a game near you! Orders may be placed here.
wolf90 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2018, 08:46 PM   #26
Tim Kauffman
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Pennsylvania
Default Re: Vulcans and Friends counter sheets

Quote:
Originally Posted by wolf90 View Post
Well, I now know what my article for (the entirely theoretical, at this time,) Ogrezine III will be!
D.
:)

Here's as far as I took the Combine Stealth program started back in 2012 in the wake of OGRE DE. It includes images of FanMade Stealth units with WIP stats.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/128248...57688275408641

Here's a link to my thread on the NINJA replete with all manner of material compiled in a orderly fashion here in the forums:
http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=148488

I mention this because the NINJA is now officially being considered as WIP material and if any of this material can aid that effort in any way, so be it. That's why I worked on it and posted the material. It's too much to be sending in and mostly WIP ideas, although the line artwork for the units are probably final.

Drew, consider the material at this link as WIP ideas awaiting feedback if you have any. If you see anything that has any merit as something that I should send in as-is or with changes as a OGREzine submission, please let me know.

...KEEP THOSE TREAD UNITS ROLLING...
__________________
"So I stood my ground...my only hope to die as I had always lived-fighting" John Carter of Mars

Last edited by Tim Kauffman; 10-25-2018 at 05:15 AM.
Tim Kauffman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2018, 09:41 PM   #27
TheAmishStig
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Lancaster, PA
Default Re: Vulcans and Friends counter sheets

Quote:
Originally Posted by ColBosch View Post
Yes, I was the most recent to propose a unified "internal cargo bay" rule. (I can't discount that someone else might have come up with it before.) I think hammering out something that covers all units that carry stuff inside them would reduce fiddliness and the need for special rules, and ultimately save wordcount and frustration.
Check your PMs. If I'm barking up the right tree, that's a pattern for how capacity scales across Size.
__________________
Andy Mull
MIB Agent #0460
Ogre 134th Battalion

Lancaster, PA
Imgur: https://agent0460.imgur.com/
TheAmishStig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2018, 09:38 AM   #28
ColBosch
 
ColBosch's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Default Re: Vulcans and Friends counter sheets

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAmishStig View Post
Check your PMs. If I'm barking up the right tree, that's a pattern for how capacity scales across Size.
I got your PM. I'll definitely give them a read through this evening!
ColBosch is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:11 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.