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Old 09-11-2018, 04:06 AM   #21
AlexanderHowl
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Default Re: Empathy with low IQ

I believe that there is a mistaken conflation of two different effects of the advantage in question. If you read the text, the lying part is in the paragraph relating to first impressions, not the paragraph relating to telling the whether someone is telling the truth. So, if someone failed on a first impression roll, I would tell them that the Queen appears to be secretly in love when she is not, that she is happy due to being pregnant when she is neither happy or pregnant, etc. In any case, I am hiding the results of any information roll because I do not want the player to know that their characters are suffering from mistaken impressions.
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Old 09-11-2018, 05:21 AM   #22
coronatiger
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
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Default Re: Empathy with low IQ

I created a separate tread for people with good ideas about what the GM might say when the Empathy roll fails:


Brainstorm: False Empathy plots
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Old 09-12-2018, 01:59 AM   #23
Plane
 
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Originally Posted by Phil Masters View Post
So, penalize the character for taking an advantage that doesn't even work?

And even if the advantage, as written, is supposed to include the delusion "I'm always right", it wouldn't have to infect the other members of that person's group. If they notice that he's almost always wrong about people, they'll start working on that principle, and physically restraining him from acting on his instincts.

The advantage, as written, creates an active perverse incentive to engage in "bad roleplaying". The problem isn't with the players, it's with the bad rule writing (which should have been caught in the 4e playtest process, so I accept a small share of the guilt).
I don't think you're ever obligated to believe in your feelings, but I think I understand the point you're making. If you are only right half the time, then you would have no incentive to trust your feelings since you'd be just as often right as wrong.

This isn't like torture, where you can get specific data and then test if it was right or not. If 50% of the time you think non-possessed people are possessed by ghosts and possessed people were non-possessed, you wouldn't find it useful when you're actually able to correctly detect them without knowing which are the correct times.

"Skills for Everyone" in GURPS Powers could be a solution. If it's a skill instead of an attribute check then you can get a +5 bonus to it by spending 30x as long on the task. Someone who knows from experience that their hunches are usually wrong (or only right half the time) could know not to trust their gut unless they spend 30 seconds examining that gut.
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Old 09-12-2018, 02:59 AM   #24
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Default Re: Empathy with low IQ

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Originally Posted by Plane View Post
If you are only right half the time, then you would have no incentive to trust your feelings since you'd be just as often right as wrong.
And if you're almost always wrong*, you learn to respond correctly to that.




* Which if the Character has an IQ of 10 or lower, Sensitive would almost always be wrong.
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Old 09-12-2018, 10:20 AM   #25
Flyndaran
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Default Re: Empathy with low IQ

If my brother says he's 100% certain, then he is without fail, wrong. He kept doing it for a couple of years even after I called him on it. Eventually he stopped, but for a while he was like a reverse psychic.
So I wouldn't even call this form of sensitive unrealistic.
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Old 09-12-2018, 10:38 AM   #26
David Johnston2
 
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If my brother says he's 100% certain, then he is without fail, wrong. He kept doing it for a couple of years even after I called him on it. Eventually he stopped, but for a while he was like a reverse psychic.
So I wouldn't even call this form of sensitive unrealistic.
That's a case of protesting too much, in this case doubling down when you have a strong suspicion that you are wrong. Someone who is really absolutely certain doesn't say that. They merely speak as though what they were saying is simply fact.
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Old 09-12-2018, 02:49 PM   #27
evileeyore
 
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That's a case of protesting too much, in this case doubling down when you have a strong suspicion that you are wrong. Someone who is really absolutely certain doesn't say that. They merely speak as though what they were saying is simply fact.
This isn't always the case.


Anecdotally: I have a fantastically poor memory for names. If I'm trying to remember a name and can't, then usually a letter pops into my head, and I'll be 100% certain that their name starts with, or has that letter in the first 2-3 letters.

I'm always 100% wrong. In fact, I'm always so wrong that the letter is usually not even in their name at all.

I used to cling to that letter and try everything to figure out a name from there. But I eventually realized "Hey, every time a letter pops in my head like this, it's completely wrong", so now, I immediately discard that letter and try names without said letter. Now, I usually figure out the forgotten name in a few minutes (instead of randomly several days later after I've given up trying) or I never remember it.
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Old 09-12-2018, 03:53 PM   #28
David Johnston2
 
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Originally Posted by evileeyore View Post
This isn't always the case.


Anecdotally: I have a fantastically poor memory for names. If I'm trying to remember a name and can't, then usually a letter pops into my head, and I'll be 100% certain that their name starts with, or has that letter in the first 2-3 letters.
Well yeah. You knew you couldn't remember the name and therefore you were guessing. You were merely inclined to guess with conviction. If you could actually remember part of the name, you wouldn't need that kind of certainty. You would just know.
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Old 09-12-2018, 04:53 PM   #29
Flyndaran
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Default Re: Empathy with low IQ

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That's a case of protesting too much, in this case doubling down when you have a strong suspicion that you are wrong. Someone who is really absolutely certain doesn't say that. They merely speak as though what they were saying is simply fact.
No. He was certain. He was just wrong whenever he was 100% certain.
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Old 09-12-2018, 09:49 PM   #30
Lord Azagthoth
 
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Default Re: Empathy with low IQ

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Originally Posted by Flyndaran View Post
No. He was certain. He was just wrong whenever he was 100% certain.
You're in luck whenever he is 100% certain when a lottery ticket does not guarantee the jackpot.
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