Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-09-2018, 09:11 AM   #11
tbone
 
tbone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Default Re: Passive cover bonus from shield and cloak?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaraxes View Post
That is partially covered (ha ha) by the rules I mentioned above. Roll for random hit location of those dozen arrows; the ones that hit the shielded locations have to do enough overpenetration to hurt the guard (which probably means no damage). The guard with no shield gets no such benefit, and so gets riddled by all dozen arrows. You don't need to make active defense rolls to benefit from cover.

The catch, as we agreed, is there's no obvious rule telling us which locations are covered.
Right, which is why I say there's no existing rule for that passive cover. A potential key component of such a rule – random hit location – is available, but without that tied to shield coverage, there's currently no playable RAW that a GM can invoke to have a shield passively block missiles and stuff.

House rules to the rescue! As you say, there's nothing hard about coming up with something basic. The house rules I reference suggest a main approach and two optional approaches. Without pasting details here, the three approaches boil down to:

1. Abstract cover

Treat DB as a bonus on AD (that's RAW), or as a penalty TH.

(That's the simplest idea, with no fuss over cover locations, etc. When passive defense should apply, a miss caused by that TH penalty means the shield was hit. Easy enough!)

2. Random cover

With reference to B408, treat a shield as cover appropriate to shield size. This means a TH penalty (to intentionally aim for the general unexposed portion) as above, or an appropriate (n in 6) chance of hitting the shield (appropriate for those long-distance arrows).

3. Specific cover

For a given shield size, this approach specifies the degree of cover (none, half, full) that each hit location enjoys. Play things naturally from there: say, target the partly-covered torso at a penalty, or shoot for the uncovered head at no penalty (beyond normal head TH penalty). For that long-distance arrow, roll a random location, and let that location's cover determine what happens.

(This is obviously best for the detail lovers: from that base, you could adjust per-location cover for high guard or low guard, or for different shield shapes, etc. I leave that to others...)

So. Good or bad, that's one way – er, three ways – to handle shields as portable cover offering passive as well as active defense. I'm all ears for better ideas!
__________________
T. Bone
GURPS stuff and more at the Games Diner:
http://www.gamesdiner.com
Twitter: @Gamesdiner
(Latest goods on the site: What happens when you read Dungeon Fantasy RPG books just before going to bed. A recounting of a dream in which gaming makes an appearance (although an irresponsibly driving toad gets the spotlight).)
tbone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2018, 09:56 AM   #12
Anaraxes
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Default Re: Passive cover bonus from shield and cloak?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbone View Post
1. Abstract cover
Treat DB as a bonus on AD (that's RAW), or as a penalty TH.
I like this one for the no-fuss category.

Quote:
treat a shield as cover appropriate to shield size.
The purist in me suggests that relative SM ought to play a role here, if you wanted to value arbitrarily-sized shields. But taking a quick glance, it doesn't look like that would work out very different from just using -DB.

As a minor variation, you could use a "miss by DB" rule: a hit at TH-DB is a hit, a miss by <= DB means the arrow hits the shield (you'd have hit, too, if it weren't for that meddling shield); a miss by > DB is a miss.
Anaraxes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2018, 12:27 PM   #13
tbone
 
tbone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Default Re: Passive cover bonus from shield and cloak?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaraxes View Post
The purist in me suggests that relative SM ought to play a role here...
Purists unite! Got that taken care of here.

The basic idea, though, is just as you suggest: Modify shield DB for user SM (i.e., subtract SM from DB).

The page also suggests boosting DB for getting small behind a shield (kneeling, hiding, etc.).

The two things – letting shields act as passive cover, and modifying DB for SM/position – work nicely together, and make shields a more versatile defensive tool. You can duck down behind a big shield and just wait out that storm of arrows!
__________________
T. Bone
GURPS stuff and more at the Games Diner:
http://www.gamesdiner.com
Twitter: @Gamesdiner
(Latest goods on the site: What happens when you read Dungeon Fantasy RPG books just before going to bed. A recounting of a dream in which gaming makes an appearance (although an irresponsibly driving toad gets the spotlight).)
tbone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2018, 01:47 PM   #14
DouglasCole
Doctor of GURPS Ballistics
 
DouglasCole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Burnsville, MN
Default Re: Passive cover bonus from shield and cloak?

I'd think striking around the shield would be "I take a Deceptive Attack/Prediction Shot at -2 to hit for -1 to the foe's defense sufficient to negate the DB of the shield."
__________________
The Deadly Spring "...probably the most infamous Pyramid article of all time."-Jeffro's Car Wars Blog
Gaming Ballistic: Home of Gaming Ballistic, LLC and my blog.
DouglasCole is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2018, 01:49 PM   #15
ravenfish
 
Join Date: May 2007
Default Re: Passive cover bonus from shield and cloak?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DouglasCole View Post
I'd think striking around the shield would be "I take a Deceptive Attack/Prediction Shot at -2 to hit for -1 to the foe's defense sufficient to negate the DB of the shield."
Which works perfectly if the target is using the shield for DB, but rather less well if it is being used as cover (under whatever rules).
__________________
I predicted GURPS:Dungeon Fantasy several hours before it came out and all I got was this lousy sig.
ravenfish is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2018, 01:55 PM   #16
DouglasCole
Doctor of GURPS Ballistics
 
DouglasCole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Burnsville, MN
Default Re: Passive cover bonus from shield and cloak?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ravenfish View Post
Which works perfectly if the target is using the shield for DB, but rather less well if it is being used as cover (under whatever rules).
The rules on p. B548 should guide you well enough, then:

"Target
To attack hit locations or weapons,
use the penalties under Melee Attack
Modifiers (p. 547). If the target has
cover, you can either choose to take no
penalty and roll hit location randomly
(shots that hit a covered location
always strike full cover, and hit partial
cover on 4-6 on 1d) or target an
exposed hit location (add an extra -2 if
only partly exposed)."

The extra -2 is for half cover/partial cover, and in the center of the hit distribution, is approximately equal to halving the chance for success (50% goes down to 25%). So by extension, that -2 should be -(the DB of your shield).

The SM question comes into play with the "add an extra -2" because the SM is included in the targeted location penalty.
__________________
The Deadly Spring "...probably the most infamous Pyramid article of all time."-Jeffro's Car Wars Blog
Gaming Ballistic: Home of Gaming Ballistic, LLC and my blog.
DouglasCole is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2018, 02:18 PM   #17
Railstar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Default Re: Passive cover bonus from shield and cloak?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maz View Post
More cumbersome solution: You figure out what parts of the body the shield covers (including partially) and then roll randomly for location. If it's a location covered by the shield then it's the same as above.
How would you figure it out?

Off the top of my head I'm thinking...

DB 1 = shield arm (shield hand assumed to be included).
DB 2 = shield arm + torso.
DB 3 = shield arm + leg on that side.

Then combine with the Focused Defence rules to present the shield side.
Railstar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2018, 02:29 PM   #18
Plane
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Default Re: Passive cover bonus from shield and cloak?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaraxes View Post
No; see B374. Front or shield side (same rules as for a Block).
If someone has Peripheral Vision and Double-Jointed, allowing blocking attacks from Rear, do you think they would get the DB against those attacks?
Plane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2018, 02:31 PM   #19
tanksoldier
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Default Re: Passive cover bonus from shield and cloak?

Cloaks were mentioned in the OP. Pretty sure cloaks only provide bonuses when readied and wielded deliberately. Just wearing a cloak doesn’t do anything.
tanksoldier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2018, 11:55 AM   #20
tbone
 
tbone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Default Re: Passive cover bonus from shield and cloak?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DouglasCole View Post
I'd think striking around the shield would be "I take a Deceptive Attack/Prediction Shot at -2 to hit for -1 to the foe's defense sufficient to negate the DB of the shield."
Indeed, and I tackle that very consideration in detail in my old bit.

Rather than weigh down the thread with all my junk, I'll again refer (a presumably very small number of) interested parties to the article. Down near the bottom, in item #3 of Designer's Notes, are notes on how this whole "shields as cover" business would/could/should(?) mesh with Deceptive Attack.
__________________
T. Bone
GURPS stuff and more at the Games Diner:
http://www.gamesdiner.com
Twitter: @Gamesdiner
(Latest goods on the site: What happens when you read Dungeon Fantasy RPG books just before going to bed. A recounting of a dream in which gaming makes an appearance (although an irresponsibly driving toad gets the spotlight).)
tbone is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
cloak, kromm explanation

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:01 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.