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Old 09-12-2018, 04:50 PM   #21
AlexanderHowl
 
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Default Re: Body Language vs Detect Lies

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Originally Posted by NineDaysDead View Post
Empathy: Sensitive (Cosmic, No Die Roll Required, +100%; Remote +50%) [13]

You can automatically tell if someone is lying to you, if you can see or hear them, even if they aren't in your presence (like someone on TV). You get +1 to your Detect Lies and Fortune-Telling skills, and to Psychology rolls to analyze a subject. The GM should also tell you what you "feel" about people.
I would no more allow that in my campaigns than I would allow Intuition (Cosmic, No Die Roll Required, +100%) [30]. Remember, enhancements are a privilege, not a right, and it is the responsibility of every GM to have a sniper ready to deal with munchkins during the first game session. Of course, the game becomes solving the murder of the PC(s), but that is an acceptable divergence and why I always have players bring in multiple characters ('you can play that character, but they will receive a 0.50 caliber bullet to the brain during the first session').
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Old 09-12-2018, 05:53 PM   #22
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Default Re: Body Language vs Detect Lies

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I would no more allow that in my campaigns than I would allow Intuition (Cosmic, No Die Roll Required, +100%) [30].
I'd happily allow both. In fact the Cosmic Sensitive is so good, I'll have to suggest it to the next Player who wants Empathy...
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Old 09-12-2018, 06:09 PM   #23
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Default Re: Body Language vs Detect Lies

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I'd happily allow both. In fact the Cosmic Sensitive is so good, I'll have to suggest it to the next Player who wants Empathy...
If an Advantage comes in levels, it's probably not kosher to take the lowest level and apply Enhancements to it until it is both better and cheaper than the higher level of the Advantage.
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Old 09-12-2018, 08:24 PM   #24
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Default Re: Body Language vs Detect Lies

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If an Advantage comes in levels, it's probably not kosher to take the lowest level and apply Enhancements to it until it is both better and cheaper than the higher level of the Advantage.
Except it isn't. Note the disparity between offered skill bonuses.
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Old 09-12-2018, 08:40 PM   #25
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Default Re: Body Language vs Detect Lies

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Except it isn't. Note the disparity between offered skill bonuses.
+1 and +3 are functionally identical if you never have to roll Detect Lies again and depending on how much information the GM gives out as 'feel' for people, Psychology to analyze people might be rolled seldom, if at all.

Personally, I've never seen Fortune-Telling rolled by a PC and I wouldn't consider a relative +2 to it remotely worth it for Empathy at 15 points vs. Automatic Success Sensitivity at 13 points.
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Old 09-12-2018, 10:28 PM   #26
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Default Re: Body Language vs Detect Lies

Fortunately, any sensible GM would restrict that type of Cosmic modifer to deities who are NPCs only, so it is unlikely to matter in anything but a hypothetical situation. If a GM did allow it, it would likely never come up in their campaign, as 'no roll' means 'no use' in most campaigns. After all, being a perfect lie detector does not matter in campaigns where only the final boss knows the truth and all of their minions are deceived into believing that a lie is the truth.

For example, a shapeshifter could tell her minions that they belong to a secret government organization that is assassinating supers in order to protect the USA from internal threats. The truth, however, is that the shapeshifter is a Russian super who is attempting to kill off supers in the USA so that the USA will become more vulnerable to Russian infiltration. With a modicum of effort, the shapeshifter could have several layers of minions underneath her, so that even the Director of the assassination program does not even know the true identity of the shapeshifter, thinking that she is a member of the Department of Homeland Security.
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Old 09-12-2018, 10:33 PM   #27
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Default Re: Body Language vs Detect Lies

I'd probably give empathy/detect lies/etc a resistance roll, in which case cosmic (no roll required) isn't abusive or even all that useful.
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Old 09-13-2018, 12:29 PM   #28
Donny Brook
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Default Re: Body Language vs Detect Lies

To riff on Detect Lies in simulationist terms, my personal history suggests I have something like a Talent that includes it. I don't know how common or uncommon this may be, but its like a sense for the state of continuity/harmony/completeness in a context (narrative, heirarchy, analytical scenario, whatever). And it is like a sense in that it comes unbidden, and before a conscious reason for it. Sometimes with notable feeling of frisson.

Kromm's description of Detect Lies refers to voice stress and word choices. My experience includes those but also more general 'inconsistency' triggers, which I would say can also be found in and through written and other media. Also it definitely works better, but not solely, in matters where I have more knowledge. Also, it doesn't seem to me that this invokes empathy particularly.

Related skills in the Talent set would include: Detect Lies, Propaganda, Intelligence Analysis, Theology, Philosophy, and perhaps others.
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Old 09-13-2018, 12:58 PM   #29
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Default Re: Body Language vs Detect Lies

My issue is that people always seem to feel that I am lying due to misleading 'tells', which I ruthlessly exploited as an adolescent when I figured out the phenomenon. I would start by being completely truthful with people for the first six months that I knew them and then start feeding them small lies until I knew they could accept the big lies. By the time that I eventually ran into real trouble because of dozens of conflicting narratives, I had fooled a lot of people concerning practically every aspect of my life.
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Old 09-13-2018, 03:32 PM   #30
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Default Re: Body Language vs Detect Lies

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Originally Posted by Icelander View Post
+1 and +3 are functionally identical if you never have to roll Detect Lies again...
This is true. I'll have to think on it.

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...and depending on how much information the GM gives out as 'feel' for people, Psychology to analyze people might be rolled seldom, if at all.
Personally, Psychology would always be helpful. The 'feeling' I'd give out would be of a very shallow nature, along the lines of "You get the feeling Sir Honorbound is very wrapped up in keeping his word" but never mention his Bad Temper, PTSD, or mild Gambling habits... all things a well versed Psychologist could use to twist Sir Honorbound up in knots.


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Personally, I've never seen Fortune-Telling rolled by a PC and I wouldn't consider a relative +2 to it remotely worth it for Empathy at 15 points vs. Automatic Success Sensitivity at 13 points.
I've both seen and used Fortune-Telling in games. Both in con artistry and ye olde "Let me consult the cards to figure out what to do next".
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