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Old 03-07-2018, 04:40 AM   #31
gudmo
 
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Default Re: Buried alive - Need Help

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Originally Posted by Tomsdad View Post
Well I could make some vague zoological argument for why giant acid spider's infravision should be heat only, but lets face it better to assume the worst!


But TBH unless this cavern in well lit, that's not really going to help them spot you at a distance anyway (there better of in with heat signature against a could back ground).

If it is dark what are you using to see you way?
Continual Light and the Mage has Dark Vision
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Old 03-07-2018, 04:55 AM   #32
Tomsdad
 
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Originally Posted by gudmo View Post
Continual Light and the Mage has Dark Vision
Well OK if you are worried the spiders can see into the visual spectrum* you want dark vision on everyone (or if there's any ambient light at all, night vision is cheaper).

IME Navigating with Infravision really comes down to the individual GM and how they play it.



*actually no they can see continual light with infra vision just fine, so weather or not they can see in the visual spectrum is irrelevant for this

Last edited by Tomsdad; 03-07-2018 at 05:33 AM.
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Old 03-07-2018, 05:41 AM   #33
gudmo
 
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Default Re: Buried alive - Need Help

The group is impatient and will probably vote for killing them all (Especially my Cleric Dwarf that has an obsession to kill spiders).

Casting Dark Vision on the Barbarian is very expensive
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Old 03-07-2018, 06:06 AM   #34
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Default Re: Buried alive - Need Help

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Originally Posted by gudmo View Post
Well the spell does say you can move 1 cy of material.. But it is implied and perhaps up to debate if this material is always the same during the spells duration. i.e. you cannot move material away for example to create a tunnel but you can select a 1 cy of stone and shape that any way you want.
Rough sketch. Each C is a cubic yard of stone, T is the cubic yard of stone that is the subject of the spell:

The mage casts Shape Earth on the cubic yard of stone at the head of the tunnel:
Code:
CCCCCCCCCC
CCT      C
CCCCCCCCCC
then he moves the stone down the tunnel by flattening it and stretching it along the walls:
Code:
CCCCCCCCCC
CC_________C
CCCCCCCCCC
finally he reforms it at the back of the tunnel:
Code:
CCCCCCCCCC
CC      TC
CCCCCCCCCC
Shape Earth explicitly provides a move speed for stone so I can't see how that movement would be illegal.
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Old 03-07-2018, 06:32 AM   #35
gudmo
 
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Default Re: Buried alive - Need Help

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Originally Posted by mlangsdorf View Post
Rough sketch. Each C is a cubic yard of stone, T is the cubic yard of stone that is the subject of the spell:

The mage casts Shape Earth on the cubic yard of stone at the head of the tunnel:
Code:
CCCCCCCCCC
CCT      C
CCCCCCCCCC
then he moves the stone down the tunnel by flattening it and stretching it along the walls:
Code:
CCCCCCCCCC
CC_________C
CCCCCCCCCC
finally he reforms it at the back of the tunnel:
Code:
CCCCCCCCCC
CC      TC
CCCCCCCCCC
Shape Earth explicitly provides a move speed for stone so I can't see how that movement would be illegal.
The main problem is that once this cy of stone is move the mage needs to cast the spell again (Unless the GM allows for a new target).
Even 100m of travel will require 100 rolls.
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Old 03-07-2018, 06:47 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by gudmo View Post
The main problem is that once this cy of stone is move the mage needs to cast the spell again (Unless the GM allows for a new target).
Even 100m of travel will require 100 rolls.
So what? What is the imperative for doing it quickly? You have been given several ways to get out by tunneling underneath. None of them will take more than a day or so.
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Old 03-07-2018, 06:53 AM   #37
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Default Re: Buried alive - Need Help

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The main problem is that once this cy of stone is move the mage needs to cast the spell again (Unless the GM allows for a new target).
Even 100m of travel will require 100 rolls.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanHoward View Post
So what? What is the imperative for doing it quickly? You have been given several ways to get out by tunneling underneath. None of them will take more than a day or so.
I think he might also be worried about critical failures on spellcasting, as well as the barbarian's murder addiction leading him to attack the other PCs.
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Old 03-07-2018, 06:54 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by gudmo View Post
{Shape Earth} cannot move material away for example to create a tunnel.
What do they call a mole in Scotland?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gudmo View Post
Even 100m of travel will require 100 rolls.
Actually, the spell cost is per cubic yard. You're not limited to just one cubic yard per casting. Double cost for stone, so 2 FP / cy. Your mage can probably do 5 cy per cast. 100 rolls gets you all the way out from under that cavern. Counting rest time, 16 and 2/3 hours. Throw in lunch and OSHA-mandated 15-minute breaks every two hours, you could just round it up to 18 hours, or just call it a day and catch a nap while you're down there.

Avoid: At this point, you've sort of backed yourself into a corner, so I'm not sure there's another way than a tunnel.
Stealth: Go back up in the cavern but keep the spiders from noticing you. Invis, Mage-Stealth, Body of Air, good old-fashioned skills.
Trickery: Get the spiders to notice something more interesting than you, and escape while they're busy. Can you make their worst enemy appear? (Illusion / Creation / Summon / go fetch a real one nearby)
Fight: just go kill all the spiders on your way out. Rawr!
Diplomacy: down at the bottom, because I'm not sure acid spiders are intelligent or that you could talk to them. But hey, it's DF, so might as well keep the options open. Besides, this category would include taking advantage of your patron Lolth, Arachne, Anansi, Iktomi... If you have such a contact, of course.

Last edited by Anaraxes; 03-07-2018 at 07:09 AM.
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Old 03-07-2018, 07:32 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by gudmo View Post
The main problem is that once this cy of stone is move the mage needs to cast the spell again (Unless the GM allows for a new target).
Even 100m of travel will require 100 rolls.
Can you not cut down the number of rolls by increasing the amount moved each time?

Obviously each spell will now cost more, and the high skill reduction is less efficient in reducing FP spend so you'll spend more time resting per cy of stone you shift.

Your problem here is the Barbarian who I'm assuming is SM+1 by your earlier posts. So assuming your crawling to reduce the cross section of the tunnel he probably need's a tunnel with a 3sq yard cross section?

3sq yard is 27sq ft or a tunnel just over 5ft by 5ft* (5' 2.4" sq if I'm right)

To advance the space 100 yards it will require shifting 300cy of rock


The wizard's got Move Earth (stone) at skill 19, ER 15 and FP 14 I think?

so in theory he can cast a 12cy move stone spell that will cost 23fp.

Each casting will advance the space 4 yards forward so you'll need 25x castings to cover 100 yards distance, but that's way better than the 300 castings required for moving 300cy, 1cy at a time

Now obviously you'll need to recuperate the FP spend which means this will be way slower than casting 1cy at 1fp each, but it will be way less castings than trying to move enough stone at 1cy per casting.




*which seems quite big for crawling through, but SM+1 is quite chunky I guess, the dwarf can probably walk upright! Still you are going to be there for a while doing this method, and it's not going to help if the barbarian kills everyone in a fit of claustrophobic rage!

If you think they'll put up with / survive in a 4.5ft x 4.5ft tunnel that's a 2.5 sq yard cross section you could move forward 4 yard with a 10cy spell costing 19fp or 5 yards forward with a 12.5cy spell costing 24fp

4ft x 4ft is 2 sq yards, you move forward 6 yards for 23fp, or 5 yards for 19fp


EDIT: ninja'd while I counted on my fingers and toes!

Last edited by Tomsdad; 03-07-2018 at 08:18 AM.
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Old 03-07-2018, 08:24 AM   #40
Tomsdad
 
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The group is impatient and will probably vote for killing them all (Especially my Cleric Dwarf that has an obsession to kill spiders).
Well TBH unless they have a very good plan, or are v.powerful, 4 vs. hundreds of SM2 Acid spiders in open terrain, pretty much means TPK I think?

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Casting Dark Vision on the Barbarian is very expensive
True

Last edited by Tomsdad; 03-07-2018 at 08:30 AM.
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