Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > Dungeon Fantasy Roleplaying Game

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-22-2018, 08:12 PM   #11
Dalin
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Saint Paul, MN
Default Re: What Do You Want In A Dungeon?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormcrow View Post
If you have a series of rooms in which the party simply slaughters all the monsters from the manuals in alphabetical order and takes all their treasure, you won't have nearly as much fun as when you suddenly encounter a little old hermit guarding a golden tree whose fruits glow with a pale light, and who gives you a riddle explaining the purpose of the tree. Can you figure out the riddle? Do you try eating the fruit? Do you kill the old man? Is he really just an old man? These are the sorts of encounters players will remember.
QFT. (Though I also agree with zuljita that combat is not a last resort for many players.)

I love memorable situations and NPCs. I love a great map. I love being surprised when I open the door. I love unexpected terrain: glowing mushroom caverns, rope bridges over chasms, houses (or cities) built into giant stalactites, weird gravity, invisible stairs, talking rocks (or slugs or smoke), ... magical and fantastical locations to explore and interact with. I love it when the vertical dimension is referenced, especially in a dungeon (levels with various connections, multi-story rooms, etc.) Add funky monsters and it's good times.

As for length, I'm good with anything. Vignettes are great. I used to enjoy those "Book of Lairs" types of things with basically fully worked random encounters or mini-dungeons. Easy to drop into a larger game. But I definitely don't turn my nose up at epic adventure paths either.
Dalin is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2018, 11:48 AM   #12
DouglasCole
Doctor of GURPS Ballistics
 
DouglasCole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Burnsville, MN
Default Re: What Do You Want In A Dungeon?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalin View Post
As for length, I'm good with anything. Vignettes are great.
Heh. I worked the preamble and history for Lost Hall of Tyr (a 5e adventure designed as a convention one-shot and demo of my Dungeon Grappling book) into a vignette type story, and was accused of being a wannabee failed writer novelist in a recent review of the book.

Different tastes, I guess.
__________________
The Deadly Spring "...probably the most infamous Pyramid article of all time."-Jeffro's Car Wars Blog
Gaming Ballistic: Home of Gaming Ballistic, LLC and my blog.
DouglasCole is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2018, 12:45 PM   #13
Kromm
GURPS Line Editor
 
Kromm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Montréal, Québec
Default Re: What Do You Want In A Dungeon?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DouglasCole View Post

I worked the preamble and history for Lost Hall of Tyr (a 5e adventure designed as a convention one-shot and demo of my Dungeon Grappling book) into a vignette type story, and was accused of being a wannabee failed writer novelist in a recent review of the book.

Different tastes, I guess.
It's a hopelessly divisive issue.

There are people who believe games and fiction are different facets of the same stone. They usually feel that games are better with some fiction in them, and/or that games are a good basis for novels, and/or that novels are good to adapt into games.

Then there are people who feel that games and fiction are media as different as music and sculpture.

Over the past 23 years working in this biz, I've run into both. You can't make 'em all happy.
__________________
Sean "Dr. Kromm" Punch <kromm@sjgames.com>
GURPS Line Editor, Steve Jackson Games
My LiveJournal [Just GURPS News][Just The Company]
Kromm is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2018, 01:42 PM   #14
(E)
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: New Zealand.
Default Re: What Do You Want In A Dungeon?

While a nebulous kind of concept I like to have a sense that a dungeon is either a stale and static place lying unexplored since whenever or is alternatively an active place with things happening unrelated to the delvers.
__________________
Waiting for inspiration to strike......
(E) is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2018, 03:35 PM   #15
DouglasCole
Doctor of GURPS Ballistics
 
DouglasCole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Burnsville, MN
Default Re: What Do You Want In A Dungeon?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
It's a hopelessly divisive issue.

There are people who believe games and fiction are different facets of the same stone. They usually feel that games are better with some fiction in them, and/or that games are a good basis for novels, and/or that novels are good to adapt into games.

Then there are people who feel that games and fiction are media as different as music and sculpture.

Over the past 23 years working in this biz, I've run into both. You can't make 'em all happy.
Yah.

I'll cop to the fact that I didn't give a "skip cutscene" button that's a summary for folks that just don't care to get the salient bits. I could rework that if I ever revisit the module for a different system (like my own Dragon Heresy).

In fairness to me, though, the vignette I wrote was designed to be jammed into a two hour play session at GenCon 50. I needed to set the tone of the world, prep the stage for the players to go wandering off into the wilds, and establish some of the good guys and bad guys. And I needed to do it FAST, because I only had two hours to play.

The vignette said:

Vikings! Tyr! Faeries! Goblins! Quest! fairly quickly.

Eh. We shall see!
__________________
The Deadly Spring "...probably the most infamous Pyramid article of all time."-Jeffro's Car Wars Blog
Gaming Ballistic: Home of Gaming Ballistic, LLC and my blog.
DouglasCole is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2018, 04:31 PM   #16
Kromm
GURPS Line Editor
 
Kromm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Montréal, Québec
Default Re: What Do You Want In A Dungeon?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DouglasCole View Post

In fairness to me, though, the vignette I wrote was designed to be jammed into a two hour play session at GenCon 50. I needed to set the tone of the world, prep the stage for the players to go wandering off into the wilds, and establish some of the good guys and bad guys. And I needed to do it FAST, because I only had two hours to play.

The vignette said:

Vikings! Tyr! Faeries! Goblins! Quest! fairly quickly.

Eh. We shall see!
Oh, I'm not anti-vignette! I just have limited skill at writing them. See my vignettes in GURPS Martial Arts for what I mean . . . I'm not sure how good those really are. To swerve back on topic: For a dungeon, a vignette that can be read to the players is a really nice scene-setting tool.
__________________
Sean "Dr. Kromm" Punch <kromm@sjgames.com>
GURPS Line Editor, Steve Jackson Games
My LiveJournal [Just GURPS News][Just The Company]
Kromm is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2018, 07:49 PM   #17
DouglasCole
Doctor of GURPS Ballistics
 
DouglasCole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Burnsville, MN
Default Re: What Do You Want In A Dungeon?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
Oh, I'm not anti-vignette! I just have limited skill at writing them. See my vignettes in GURPS Martial Arts for what I mean . . . I'm not sure how good those really are. To swerve back on topic: For a dungeon, a vignette that can be read to the players is a really nice scene-setting tool.
I was more agreeing with your "hopelessly divisive" point, and using a recent (brutal) bit of feedback as an example.

I think a evocative description, written with the most noticeable stuff first1], is important and useful. I can also see where folks want to do their own thing, but if I'm writing something for folks to buy, I guess I see it as my job to bring as much color to the board as possible.




[1] The walls have tapestries on them filled with scenes of battle, and an overturned stool in front of a broken table seems to be made of alternating woods, maple and oak. Oh, and there's a minotaur named Bruno trying to impale you with her horns.

Um, bury the lede there? :-)
__________________
The Deadly Spring "...probably the most infamous Pyramid article of all time."-Jeffro's Car Wars Blog
Gaming Ballistic: Home of Gaming Ballistic, LLC and my blog.
DouglasCole is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2018, 01:49 AM   #18
evileeyore
 
evileeyore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: 100 hurricane swamp
Default Re: What Do You Want In A Dungeon?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
Oh, I'm not anti-vignette! I just have limited skill at writing them. See my vignettes in GURPS Martial Arts for what I mean . . . I'm not sure how good those really are.
I liked 'em. The vignettes are sometimes my favorite parts of a game book.

But then I'm guilty of only reading the vignettes in almost all of the Shadowrun 5e books, having no real desire to play SR5, but wanting to keep up with the stories about the NPCs...
__________________
Feel free to steal, borrow, fold, spindle, mutilate any rule, advantage, etc I come up with it.
evileeyore is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2018, 03:04 PM   #19
David Johansen
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Default Re: What Do You Want In A Dungeon?

Good vingettes are good and bad vingettes are bad. All told, I think you should put them in if you have a good little story to tell and leave them out if you think you need one because it's supposed to be there.
David Johansen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2018, 05:07 PM   #20
Carnifex
 
Carnifex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Harker Heights Texas
Default Re: What Do You Want In A Dungeon?

If you want good examples, take a look at the work being done by M.T. Black for D&D 5E, his dungeons are fun and interesting. I especially recommend Magic Village for Sale, Wizard in a Bottle and Into the ivy Mansion.

http://www.dmsguild.com/browse.php?author=M.T.%20Black
Carnifex is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:19 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.