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Old 02-09-2018, 04:34 PM   #1
tbeard1999
 
Join Date: May 2013
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Default The Fourth Attribute...

OK, so you’ve just been made the Czar of All TFT. You decide to add one - and only one - attribute for the game. What is it?
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Old 02-09-2018, 04:38 PM   #2
tbeard1999
 
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Default Re: The Fourth Attribute...

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Originally Posted by tbeard1999 View Post
OK, so you’ve just been made the Czar of All TFT. You decide to add one - and only one - attribute for the game. What is it?
I’ll start. I think I’d add Perception (PC). Indeed, I think that “rolls to notice/see/hear/smell” are probably the most numerous rolls made in TFT besides “to hit/cast spell” and “damage”. I think that this argues for a specific attribute.

So PC would be used for rolls to notice/see/hear/smell/feel. And possibly for “to hit” rolls for missile weapons/spells and thrown weapons.

Last edited by tbeard1999; 02-09-2018 at 04:43 PM.
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Old 02-09-2018, 04:48 PM   #3
Chris Rice
 
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Default Re: The Fourth Attribute...

Hero Points; used either to affect die rolls or to cast spells. Does away with the need for attribute increase, which was the one part of the game I didn't like.
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Old 02-09-2018, 04:53 PM   #4
tbeard1999
 
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Default Re: The Fourth Attribute...

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Hero Points; used either to affect die rolls or to cast spells. Does away with the need for attribute increase, which was the one part of the game I didn't like.
Interesting. Would they be lost when used, or would they regenerate? If the former, it would certainly enhance the resource allocation challenge that I maintain is a major reason dungeons are so compelling.

I like attribute increasing, but you could blend that with hero points by limiting attribute increases to (say) 1 or 2 points more than the starting attribute. From that point on, figures can only buy hero points.

Have you had much experience playtesting this?
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Old 02-09-2018, 05:15 PM   #5
Chris Rice
 
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Default Re: The Fourth Attribute...

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Originally Posted by tbeard1999 View Post
Interesting. Would they be lost when used, or would they regenerate? If the former, it would certainly enhance the resource allocation challenge that I maintain is a major reason dungeons are so compelling.

I like attribute increasing, but you could blend that with hero points by limiting attribute increases to (say) 1 or 2 points more than the starting attribute. From that point on, figures can only buy hero points.

Have you had much experience playtesting this?
Yes, but it was some time ago, so the details are somewhat hazy and I'd already altered the base game somewhat to six attributes among other things. Instead of awarding experience points after adventures I gave "Hero points."

These could be used in a variety of ways. For Wizards and Clerics they could be exchanged into Magic points and Faith points respectively to fuel spells. They could also be used (at great cost) to increase attributes. Their main use however, was as an in-game device to modify dice rolls in favour of the characters. These points regenerated between encounters and became a sort of indicator of a character's power; so a level 6 Hero had 6 Hero points and so on.

We all liked the extra dynamic these added to play. In addition Marius the ST12, DX12, leather armoured fighter didn't have to become Marius the ST20, DX20, plate Mail armoured fighter. He could retain the same characteristics but become much more powerful through Hero points.
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Old 02-09-2018, 07:39 PM   #6
larsdangly
 
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Unambiguous: Talent points as a thing separate from IQ, and used as your inventory of points for talents and spells.
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Old 02-09-2018, 09:13 PM   #7
JLV
 
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Default Re: The Fourth Attribute...

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OK, so you’ve just been made the Czar of All TFT. You decide to add one - and only one - attribute for the game. What is it?
Easy, peasy: HT (Health); it solves so many of the fundamental problems with the existing system in terms of fatigue versus hits, attribute bloat (it's far harder to get there when you're trying to up FOUR attributes), straightforward encumbrance rules, disease and poison effects, etc., etc., etc.

Of course this was originally proposed back when TFT was still being published in the early 80's and was so popular (and simple) a suggestion that it was incorporated by Steve into GURPS as an obvious step...

It doesn't solve many of the issues revolving around IQ, of course, but if you decouple Talents/Spells capacity from IQ (or significantly increase capacity by multiplying IQ by some number, as has been mentioned elsewhere), most of those difficulties fall away as well.
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Old 02-10-2018, 03:41 AM   #8
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Default Re: The Fourth Attribute...

of course HT (Health)!

I think these discussions are dangerous in the sense that Steve Jackson after reading our suggestions could decide he already made all changes necessary in GURPS and cancel the new TFT project ! :-D
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Old 02-10-2018, 05:02 AM   #9
Chris Rice
 
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of course HT (Health)!

I think these discussions are dangerous in the sense that Steve Jackson after reading our suggestions could decide he already made all changes necessary in GURPS and cancel the new TFT project ! :-D
Each of the original three Attributes had two main functions:

ST governed both weapon use and ability to take damage (health/con).
DX governed hit chance and many skill checks.
IQ governed difficulty of skills to learn and number known.

The system was fairly balanced between the value of the three attributes. By splitting one (ST) into two parts by creating a Health attribute you devalue both ST and Health and imbalance the system. If you're going to split them, then it makes more sense to split all three, thus preserving the relative balance between the attributes.

Although this might seem more complex you're really just assigning a different name and number to an already existing function. As far as monsters go, it's not necessary under normal circumstances to split them, so they can be described just with the original three attributes.

This is a long winded way of saying I don't want a separate Health attribute, unless the other attributes are also split.
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Old 02-10-2018, 05:34 AM   #10
ecz
 
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Default Re: The Fourth Attribute...

the OP asked to name one, and only one, new attribute. I agree that TFT works as it is, and a fourth attribute could unbalance everything, but if I have to decide one, HT is obviusly the better choice.

and you? what you would add instead ?
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