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Old 02-06-2018, 09:45 AM   #1
ericthered
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Default Making Maps: Showing off and getting help

A while back I was thinking that I find most sci-fi war games to be too small in scale for my taste, and I realized that ogre was probably the scale I was looking for. I've just started to get into ogre, and I found the map program. Its awesome. I've started making maps representing real places. The first one is here, focused around Utah lake and Provo.

A few observations I made while making the map:

Wow, the scale for the game is enormous! There are almost half a million people living on this map.

The map demonstrates several odd things about Utah, such as where the desert is found, and just how crammed between the lakes, the deserts, and the mountains most of the people live.

This map feels rather cramped, and it looks like GEV's and infantry will rule the day, perhaps supported by the occasional howitzer. Helicopters would be really nice for this scenario, if one house rules in rules for them. Even if you only use them as transports.

A few questions:

I'm not sure how to do mountains properly. Unfortunately, all the places I want to do first have mountains. I've got rubble defining the edges, and the big bald peaks are indicated with mountain symbols. I've tried to give the ranges shape using rubble lines to indicate ridges. How is the best way to do this? is it worth it? I've read that you should use rubble around forest to indicate a mountain, but some parts of these mountains are pretty bare. What's the best way to indicate mountains?

I'm not sure how urban an area needs to be before marking it as city. On this map, dense suburbs are marked as city. Is that the correct interpretation?

Is the map too small? I know this area well, and I found myself wishing I could include certain neighboring regions, like all of the northern city, and the fields to the south that make it possible to go around the lake. Is this a special case, am I thinking too epic in scale, or does ogre really like big maps?

Is there anything else I did wrong, or could do better?

Does anyone have any areas they'd like me to do next?
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Old 02-06-2018, 10:03 AM   #2
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Default Re: Making Maps: Showing off and getting help

I pulled up Google Maps and zoomed in on the Provo area, then used the earth view image to compare to your map. Other than the intricacies of converting a real world built on squarish grids to a model world built on hexes, I think you have the general feel pretty well in hand.

Another site I use a lot for map research, really useful as you can draw lines on it for routes, and it gives way-point distances.

https://mappingsupport.com/p/gmap4.php
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Old 02-06-2018, 11:35 AM   #3
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Default Re: Making Maps: Showing off and getting help

If the mountains are too rough for tanks to go there, represent them with craters.

Technically infantry should be able to operate in there, but that's an ongoing issue.
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Old 02-07-2018, 12:40 PM   #4
ericthered
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Default Re: Making Maps: Showing off and getting help

Representing mountains with craters just feels wrong.

On the other hand, I'm actually unsure what part of the mountains will stop tanks. some parts are sheer cliffs, while others are merely steep slopes. Can a tank go up a 60 degree incline? how steep is too steep?

The north west approach to Fort Worth.

This map was harder to assign many of the hexes for, but it also feels a lot more like a classic GEV map. You can see the scattered towns fade into the metropolis.

Any thoughts on where I should do next?
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Old 02-07-2018, 02:25 PM   #5
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Default Re: Making Maps: Showing off and getting help

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
A while back I was thinking that I find most sci-fi war games to be too small in scale for my taste, and I realized that ogre was probably the scale I was looking for. I've just started to get into ogre, and I found the map program. Its awesome. I've started making maps representing real places. The first one is here, focused around Utah lake and Provo.

A few observations I made while making the map:

Wow, the scale for the game is enormous! There are almost half a million people living on this map.

The map demonstrates several odd things about Utah, such as where the desert is found, and just how crammed between the lakes, the deserts, and the mountains most of the people live.

This map feels rather cramped, and it looks like GEV's and infantry will rule the day, perhaps supported by the occasional howitzer. Helicopters would be really nice for this scenario, if one house rules in rules for them. Even if you only use them as transports.

A few questions:

I'm not sure how to do mountains properly. Unfortunately, all the places I want to do first have mountains. I've got rubble defining the edges, and the big bald peaks are indicated with mountain symbols. I've tried to give the ranges shape using rubble lines to indicate ridges. How is the best way to do this? is it worth it? I've read that you should use rubble around forest to indicate a mountain, but some parts of these mountains are pretty bare. What's the best way to indicate mountains?

I'm not sure how urban an area needs to be before marking it as city. On this map, dense suburbs are marked as city. Is that the correct interpretation?

Is the map too small? I know this area well, and I found myself wishing I could include certain neighboring regions, like all of the northern city, and the fields to the south that make it possible to go around the lake. Is this a special case, am I thinking too epic in scale, or does ogre really like big maps?

Is there anything else I did wrong, or could do better?

Does anyone have any areas they'd like me to do next?
Is the scale of this map to standard Ogre or ODE size hexes? Just curious as when I tried to create using the program to an ODE size it was pixelated.
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Old 02-07-2018, 06:45 PM   #6
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Default Re: Making Maps: Showing off and getting help

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
Representing mountains with craters just feels wrong.
I just use the mountain peaks for all mountains. Mountains are impassable for everyone.

It sort of straddles the line between a strategic display with icons, and an overhead view. After you play on it for awhile, it start to "feel" better.

Very nice work by the way, and thanks for sharing!
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Old 02-07-2018, 08:16 PM   #7
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Default Re: Making Maps: Showing off and getting help

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
The north west approach to Fort Worth.

This map was harder to assign many of the hexes for, but it also feels a lot more like a classic GEV map. You can see the scattered towns fade into the metropolis.
Is that Lake Worth in the bottom right? I'm trying to orient to the map.

Or more specifically--which hex is Saginaw? I want to know when my house gets blown up.
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Old 02-08-2018, 08:58 AM   #8
ericthered
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Default Re: Making Maps: Showing off and getting help

Quote:
Originally Posted by Misplaced Buckeye View Post
Is the scale of this map to standard Ogre or ODE size hexes? Just curious as when I tried to create using the program to an ODE size it was pixelated.
I used the "Save image Classic" option to show it to you folks. I haven't printed it yet, as right now I don't have any buddies to play with so I use inkscape to simulate a tabletop. Right now I'm building up a supply of digital maps. I actually hadn't thought of that issue: does anyone have experience?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomc View Post
I just use the mountain peaks for all mountains. Mountains are impassable for everyone.

It sort of straddles the line between a strategic display with icons, and an overhead view. After you play on it for awhile, it start to "feel" better.

Very nice work by the way, and thanks for sharing!
that works, I suppose.

You're the creator, right? Great work! Would you be open to sending me the code? Its a nice program, I kind of want to add some new hex types, and see how it was done.

Quote:
Originally Posted by selenite View Post
Is that Lake Worth in the bottom right? I'm trying to orient to the map.

Or more specifically--which hex is Saginaw? I want to know when my house gets blown up.
Saginaw is sadly not on the map, being just to the south of it. The three lakes you see the tips of are Eagle mountain lake on the south, and grapevine and Lewisville on the east. The north east corner is Denton, and the southeast is Roanoke. The Texas motor speedway is hex 2116.

I intentionally chose an area that had lakes, cities, and farms. Sorry you can't blow up your house on this map!

Of course, I suppose I could make a map focused on lake worth and the airport....
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Old 02-08-2018, 09:15 PM   #9
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Default Re: Making Maps: Showing off and getting help

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Any thoughts on where I should do next?
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Old 02-08-2018, 09:16 PM   #10
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Default Re: Making Maps: Showing off and getting help

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Middle Earth
*rides an Ogre through The Shire, waving a cowboy hat and hooting and hollering*
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