Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > The Fantasy Trip

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-07-2018, 08:19 AM   #1
tbeard1999
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Tyler, Texas
Default Fantasy Trip Glitches, Contradictions, Ambiguities

Let’s catalog the list of glitches, ambiguities, contradictions, clumsy implementations, and glaring omissions that we think exist in the TFT rules.

I propose that we list the items and limit proposed fixes to a single sentence. See my initial list below for examples. I also urge that we avoid debates in this thread. If you strongly disagree that something is a problem, say “I disagree that this is a problem” and move on. If it’s really interesting to you, start a new thread.

My initial list:

Boomerangs. I suggest they be nerfed so that they aren’t superior to light crossbows and to avoid swarms of disgusting, filthy, cowardly hobbit flingers.

Bolos. I suggest an immediate ST save so that filthy, disgusting cowardly hobbits can’t bolo giants.

General comment - review all automatic effects (i.e. that have no saving throw) and confirm that they aren’t subject to abuse. Because filthy, cowardly hobbits will abuse them Take my word for it.

Polearms. Nerf the Pole Ax (and maybe others) so that it isn’t superior to the battle ax in every situation.

Are charge attacks too strong?

Explain better the options for figures who have both the Two Weapons talent and the Fencing talent.

Does the DX increase from Missile Weapons talent also apply when determining how often the firer can shoot?

Does the DX adjustment for making an aimed shot also apply when determining how often the forer can shoot?

Replace the “add dice as difficulty increases” mechanic with modifiers.

Harmonize the multiple hit location charts or at least explain why they should be kept separate.

Consider some limit on the amount of ST that can be used in missile spells. If you think that such a limit is appropriate, increase the cost rather than impose an absolute limit. I.e., it takes 2 ST per extra die over 5 dice or somesuch.

Revise death and dying so a character does not die at ST 0.

Healing spells. Please.

Should wizards really die if ST drops to zero from spellcasting?

Make it clear that the jobs table is subject to GM discretion. Make the consequences of failing a job roll potentially fatal to any character no matter how strong he is.

Define experience costs in terms of extra attribute points. This keeps races that start with fewer points but considerable innate advantages (i.e., filthy hobbits) from dominating the game.

Please - no purple Speedos on the men. Pretty please. But bell bottoms are okay and likely even legally required.

Claim to have hidden a silver statue somewhere and fill the rules with clues as to its location. Put a note in the location that says “April Fool’s” and keep the statue.

Last edited by PK; 01-08-2018 at 07:35 AM.
tbeard1999 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2018, 03:30 PM   #2
larsdangly
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Default Re: Fantasy Trip Glitches, Contradictions, Ambiguities

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbeard1999 View Post

Exclusively use the masculine pronounce just for the hell of it. This is 1981 after all.
I'm going to call you on this one; perhaps you meant it as a joke, but it's not funny. The last thing in the world that this community needs in 2018 is an intentionally sexist slap at female gamers.
larsdangly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2018, 05:22 PM   #3
tbeard1999
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Tyler, Texas
Default Re: Fantasy Trip Glitches, Contradictions, Ambiguities

Quote:
Originally Posted by larsdangly View Post
I'm going to call you on this one; perhaps you meant it as a joke, but it's not funny. The last thing in the world that this community needs in 2018 is an intentionally sexist slap at female gamers.
Since it was a joke - by your own admission - your scolding seems gratuitous. The two female gamers in my house thought it was funny. They were more offended by the species bigotry implicit in my characterization of hobbits as filthy and untrustworthy. They obviously don’t know many hobbits, but I digress.

Besides, how dare you assert that there are only two genders? And the use of the word “slap” in reference to females seems misogynistic. You need to check your privilege, obviously.

Last edited by tbeard1999; 01-07-2018 at 05:52 PM.
tbeard1999 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2018, 07:34 AM   #4
PK
Assistant GURPS Line Editor
 
PK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Dobbstown Sane Asylum
Default Re: Fantasy Trip Glitches, Contradictions, Ambiguities

<MOD>

tbeard1999, this is an Official Warning to tone back the snark and be civil, or this thread is getting locked in its infancy. I've snipped the remark in question from your OP, mainly so that no one else replies to it specifically.

Everyone else, ignore the tangent and focus on issues with TFT that you want fixed.

</MOD>
__________________
Reverend Pee Kitty of the Order Malkavian-Dobbsian (Twitter) (LJ)

MyGURPS: My house rules and GURPS resources.

#SJGamesLive: I answered questions about GURPS After the End and more!
{Watch Video} - {Read Transcript}

Last edited by Steve Jackson; 01-08-2018 at 03:50 PM. Reason: I messed it up. I think I have fixed it.
PK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2018, 03:52 PM   #5
Steve Jackson
President and EIC
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Default Re: Fantasy Trip Glitches, Contradictions, Ambiguities

Thank you for a very useful thread topic and ground rules, Ty. Now everybody play nice. I will point out that the issue Ty is pointing out is real! We are in 2018, things have changed, and we are trying to modernize gender references in our newly released material, while at the same time expecting our fans of all genders to understand that this text was written a long time ago, according to then standard manuals of style, and yes, it reads oddly now. (The punctuation is kind of funky, too.)

"Their" still sounds like a plural to me, since I learned to read in the 1950s, but "plural includes the singular" is no more strained than "masculine includes the feminine."

Scary to think that I've been doing this long enough that my oldest work requires TRANSLATION. I shall try to keep evolving.

Yes, charge attacks with polearms are too strong. After a few decades of reflecting on it, I don't think that charging with a halberd is any better than charging with any big pointy stick. The halberd's blade doesn't help in the charge. And I'm willing to listen to argument that the javelin is too short and light to get a charge bonus.
Steve Jackson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2018, 04:23 PM   #6
tbeard1999
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Tyler, Texas
Default Re: Fantasy Trip Glitches, Contradictions, Ambiguities

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Jackson View Post
Thank you for a very useful thread topic and ground rules, Ty. Now everybody play nice. I will point out that the issue Ty is pointing out is real! ...Scary to think that I've been doing this long enough that my oldest work requires TRANSLATION. I shall try to keep evolving.
Yes.

I may have assumed more familiarity with the 70s-80s than actually exists. We gamers from the late 70s remember the agonizing and arguing that went on in the hobby regarding the use of the male pronoun.

It really got comical, frankly. Great amounts of ink were expended as folks argued about it. Virtue signalling and self-righteousness were just as popular then as now.

Many - probably most - game books contained some version of this disclaimer - "Exclusive use of the male pronoun is used in this book. However, this shouldn't be read to exclude women, etc., etc."

THIS is what I was referencing; I'm glad SOMEONE got it. Much like the bell bottoms and (regrettable) Speedos, it was a feature of the times.

(And sad to say, these times are no more or no less moral than those times. The lines are merely drawn in different places. Humans don't change; they just get smug.)

If I'd really wanted to make fun of the period, I'd have demanded that female characters lose 1 point of ST but get the Sex Appeal talent free. Yes, youngsters, some early RPGs (but not TFT) actually gave female characters charisma bonuses. And in some cases, lower maximums for Strength.

And consider this little jewel from Eldritch Wizardry (1976): "There is only one King of Lawful Dragons, just as there is only one Queen of Chaotic Dragons (Women’s Lib may make whatever they wish from the foregoing)."

Different days indeed.

Last edited by tbeard1999; 01-08-2018 at 05:05 PM.
tbeard1999 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2018, 04:31 PM   #7
Steve Jackson
President and EIC
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Default Re: Fantasy Trip Glitches, Contradictions, Ambiguities

I do not think that revised TFT needs any stat mods at all for the genders - we got along just fine without it back in the day.

(I just now located a literally moldy treasure trove - the ancient box of 70s-era TFT drafts. But I will have to take it outside, when we have a nice day, to open it, because the flood of a few years ago did it no good at all. It's dry now but, yes, there is mold. And pages are stuck together. But I don't know what I might find there. I think that much of it will be discardable, but having saved it against this day for so many years, I'll certainly give those old typed manuscripts a hard look before I ditch anything. Wouldn't it be nice to find, for instance, an unused Death Test encounter?)
Steve Jackson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2018, 04:40 PM   #8
tbeard1999
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Tyler, Texas
Default Re: Fantasy Trip Glitches, Contradictions, Ambiguities

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Jackson View Post
(I just now located a literally moldy treasure trove - the ancient box of 70s-era TFT drafts. But I will have to take it outside, when we have a nice day, to open it, because the flood of a few years ago did it no good at all. It's dry now but, yes, there is mold. And pages are stuck together. But I don't know what I might find there. I think that much of it will be discardable, but having saved it against this day for so many years, I'll certainly give those old typed manuscripts a hard look before I ditch anything. Wouldn't it be nice to find, for instance, an unused Death Test encounter?)
Why...yes it would.

Please save those documents and at some point consider making them available publicly. I think that many of us, uh, mature gamers, enjoy these "behind the scenes" items; I certainly do.

Oh and this might help - https://www.nedcc.org/free-resources...ooks-and-paper
tbeard1999 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2018, 04:45 PM   #9
sir_pudding
Wielder of Smart Pants
 
sir_pudding's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
Default Re: Fantasy Trip Glitches, Contradictions, Ambiguities

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Jackson View Post
We are in 2018, things have changed, and we are trying to modernize gender references in our newly released material, while at the same time expecting our fans of all genders to understand that this text was written a long time ago, according to then standard manuals of style, and yes, it reads oddly now. (The punctuation is kind of funky, too.)

"Their" still sounds like a plural to me, since I learned to read in the 1950s, but "plural includes the singular" is no more strained than "masculine includes the feminine."
This would be a very welcome change to your editorial policy for me, as it currently is I find that I need to write around using pronouns at all, since I am not personally comfortable with generic masculine.
sir_pudding is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2018, 08:03 PM   #10
tbeard1999
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Tyler, Texas
Default Re: Fantasy Trip Glitches, Contradictions, Ambiguities

Okay, back to the reason for the thread. Moderators, could you delete the sexism accusation, my response and your reprimand, just to clean the thread up? The comment on SJG editorial policy could probably be put someplace more appropriate. The idea is for this thread to provide Steve with a checklist of issues and save him some time. Thanks for any help you choose to give us.

Issues

The Acute Hearing talent. I simply banned it from my campaigns. The reason is that it allows a figure to automatically detect anyone sneaking up on them, which really cut into the narrative. Please consider nerfing it by giving a bonus to detect rather than making detection automatic. Maybe combine it with Alertness or convert it into a higher level of Alertness talent.

Silent Movement should also be made non-automatic, in my opinion.

Two Weapons is restricted to rapiers if combined with Fencing. I suggest that this restriction be eliminated. Fencing is the ability to use any sword well. Two Weapons is the ability to use 2 1 handed weapons. There’s no good reason to not let it work normally with Fencing. Consider that to get both talents, a character must have minimum IQ 11 and minimum adjDX of 14. He’ll use 8 IQ points to get Sword, Fencing and Two Weapons. That’s a huge investment and it just seems unreasonable to be to nerf him by limiting him to a one die weapon. With that limit, he winds up averaging something around the same damage as a broadsword. That just doesn’t seem worth the tremendous investment.

Last edited by tbeard1999; 01-08-2018 at 08:46 PM.
tbeard1999 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:51 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.