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Old 01-04-2018, 07:01 PM   #201
marctabyanan
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Default Re: December 26, 2017: The Fantasy Trip Returns Home

Things to consider for updates, that I would like to see:

- The attribute bloat is a common one everyone seems to talk about.

- Religion and religious effects in magic.

- A little more cleaned up magic item process.

- A Bestiary.


For myself, because Iím a selfish bastard: a sci-fi version. Iím working on my own sci-fi campaign world, and would love to use a sci-fi version of TFT for it. Some are out there, but they are not quite what it seems a full TFT version would have (and yes, I could just use GURPS, I know...)

There are other small bits, but half the fun of gaming is tweaking things yourself. I just want to keep the spirit of TFT with concise, tight, simple rules.

Oh, yeah, and I want it now. (Read the part about me being a selfish bastard...)
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Old 01-04-2018, 08:31 PM   #202
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Default Re: December 26, 2017: The Fantasy Trip Returns Home

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Originally Posted by stefanj View Post
-snip- Now I guess I'll be looking to buy the solitaire adventures.
Allow me to recommend Wayne's Books as a starting point -- I was just on there yesterday and they appear to have pretty much everything, including the "Land Beyond the Mountains" stuff currently listed as "available." They apparently now sell mostly via Amazon, but that also means you can do comparison shopping for what you want. Noble Knight might have some too, but I generally find their prices higher than Wayne's are...
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Old 01-04-2018, 08:43 PM   #203
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Default Re: December 26, 2017: The Fantasy Trip Returns Home

Quote:
Originally Posted by marctabyanan View Post
Things to consider for updates, that I would like to see:

- The attribute bloat is a common one everyone seems to talk about.

- Religion and religious effects in magic.

- A little more cleaned up magic item process.

- A Bestiary.

There are other small bits, but half the fun of gaming is tweaking things yourself. I just want to keep the spirit of TFT with concise, tight, simple rules.
THIS. I strongly second all of this.

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Originally Posted by marctabyanan View Post
Oh, yeah, and I want it now.
"Now?!?" Heck, I wanted it yesterday! ;-)
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Old 01-04-2018, 10:22 PM   #204
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Default Re: December 26, 2017: The Fantasy Trip Returns Home

I was think of monsters for TFT last night.

I have a whole bestiary for Tunnels & Trolls waiting for editing & illustrations, but the creatures have a different "tone" than I would think is appropriate for TFT.
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Old 01-04-2018, 11:26 PM   #205
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Default Re: December 26, 2017: The Fantasy Trip Returns Home

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Originally Posted by stefanj View Post
I was think of monsters for TFT last night.

I have a whole bestiary for Tunnels & Trolls waiting for editing & illustrations, but the creatures have a different "tone" than I would think is appropriate for TFT.
As I recall, one of the on-line fan websites had a fairly good bestiary collated some years back. And Marko Tabyanan was doing something similar over on his web site...

Plus CR Brandon published conversions for most (if not all) the D&D monsters for his Heroes and Other Worlds TFT retroclone a year or two ago. (While I think they're a bit overpowered for TFT to achieve his goal of combining the Mentzer edition of D&D with TFT (in OD&D, as I remember it, you fairly sailed through the monsters, whereas in HOW, you can get chopped up by those same monsters pretty easily), they seem pretty close to the kind of things TFT had in the original ITL book in terms of challenge to the players.) To me it looks like he converted most of the original AD&D Monster Manual...

I also recall that someone did a conversion for Tekumel to TFT (though oddly, they missed at least one of the major races when doing so), and that was (and probably still is) posted on the web somewhere.

None of those may be the exact "tone" of TFT, but they are interesting attempts to convert and are rather interesting reads...
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Old 01-05-2018, 09:15 AM   #206
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Default Re: December 26, 2017: The Fantasy Trip Returns Home

I've also got ~100 monsters from Call of Cthulhu, D+D and various other sources written up for TFT. One issue will be IP rights, which don't allow you to publish new versions of things that obviously come only from D+D. I forget exactly how that works with the core rules open access, but I'm pretty sure its a thing. My guess is that whatever it is Steve does with the official monster presentation, motivated fans will put stuff out on web sites and so forth, so quite a range will be available for people willing to poke around a bit.
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Old 01-05-2018, 10:10 AM   #207
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Default Re: December 26, 2017: The Fantasy Trip Returns Home

I would certainly purchase a PDF supplement or a Pyramid that outlined "formulas" for converting GURPS 3E and 4E creatures to whatever the nuTFT format is. There are decades of great GURPS stuff out there which I've referenced on the fly for conversion to TFT from time to time.
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Old 01-05-2018, 10:36 AM   #208
Charles G.
 
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Default Re: December 26, 2017: The Fantasy Trip Returns Home

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Originally Posted by pyratejohn View Post
Ditto! I love the land-octopus. To this day it is one of my favorite monsters.

Speaking of monsters... where do Hymenoptera stand in this? They are an ITL thing, but they are also a Chitin:I thing.
Regarding Hymenoptera, I am curious as to what a judge would rule on this. On the one hand, they were created by HT as part of his game Chitin I. However, if I understand correctly, SJ has won back the intellectual property rights to the following:

Melee (at least the early prints; 4th and later prints were rewritten to some extent and may well be excluded)
Wizard (possibly the same caveat as with Melee)
Advanced Melee
Advanced Wizard
In the Labyrinth
Tollenkar's Lair
Death Test
Death Test 2

Unless I'm mistaken, all of this is technically SJ's now. And, as written, that includes all of the Hymenoptera text contained in the In The Labyrinth game master manual. I would argue, were I a lawyer (which I'm not, nor have I ever played one on TV...), that since the this text is part of the above set of copyrighted information that now has reverted to SJ, it is now his to do with as he pleases (though any additional details on these critters that comes from, say, Chitin I, and not contained in the ITL text would still be HT's). But I could be wrong...

The only precedent for this situation that I can think of was the situation TSR found itself in with the Deities and Demigods gamebook, which originally had a Cthulhu and Melnibonean mythos. When Chaosium got the rights and started publishing games based on these (Stormbringer and Call of Cthulhu), problems arose. The 1st print of DD simply had the material, as at that point there was no challenge, but the 2nd print tellingly put in a notice in fine print thanking Chaosium for allowing them to use the material. The third and later prints, however, removed the two mythos altogether. While not identical to the Hymenoptera situation (Chitin I has been OOP for as long as TFT, with no sign of that changing) there are similarities.

I don't know how it would end up, but I do admire the problem!
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Old 01-05-2018, 11:55 AM   #209
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Default Re: December 26, 2017: The Fantasy Trip Returns Home

Quote:
Originally Posted by stefanj View Post
I was think of monsters for TFT last night.

I have a whole bestiary for Tunnels & Trolls waiting for editing & illustrations, but the creatures have a different "tone" than I would think is appropriate for TFT.
I haven't chimed in before, because my post would be nothing more than "Me, too!" Now that I have an actual idea, I'll say something. However, I'll also say, "Me, too!" I'm really looking forward to the return of The Fantasy Trip. I never had more than the original Melee and Wizard, but I played them quite a bit with the two guys who are the core of my GURPS group today. We've been gaming together for forty years.

Now on to my idea, which was triggered by Stefan's post: Perhaps we could set up a site for shared open-source content for TFT. Where the official product stops, we can continue. For example, I really hope to see an official bestiary, but that still leaves room for adding and sharing our own monsters Similarly, we could share adventures and campaigns. Maybe a wiki?

I know there have been multiple fanzines and umpteen sites dedicated to TFT. I'm thinking of a shared site where lots of fans can contribute.
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Old 01-05-2018, 01:09 PM   #210
JLV
 
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Default Re: December 26, 2017: The Fantasy Trip Returns Home

@Buzzardo: There are a couple of fan sites that would be eminently suitable for this. One is Marko Tabyanan's, the other is the Brainiac site. Both have been in existence for a while and have their own community following. By definition, the community following those two sites are "activists" for TFT, and have been for years. So it seems to me that they would be the perfect place to host that sort of thing. Plus, I am absolutely sure both would cheerfully follow any rules that Steve wanted to lay down concerning content, format, etc. for standardization purposes. Finally, if Steve were to say something along the lines of "Check out sites X and Y for unofficial additional monsters, spells, talents, etc." that would be all that most players would need to go find them and decide what they were going to use or not use in their games.

Barring the HT situation (which involves personal issues), I can't see any company actually objecting to a fan site conversion of their monsters, etc, as long as the fan site gave credit to the creating company, and as long as no one tried to sell them for profit. Heck, it's sort of like free advertising, and it might intrigue someone enough to go and check out their own games! Also, arguably, the Cthulhu Mythos (for example) is more the property of HPL's estate (if he even has one) and may even be in the public domain by now, especially since other authors published using his creations both at the time and now, so Chaosium might have a hard time arguing that some other game company, using a completely different game system, isn't "allowed" to do the same thing that Chaosium did! Similarly, the names of various Demons and Devils have been bruited about since the middle ages -- I'm guessing even the old, litigious, TSR would have a hard time claiming copyright on, say, "Beelzebub." In short, this is something that a lawyer would need to actually weigh in on, but I'm thinking the whole idea may not be as restricted as it sounds...

Turning to the hymenopterans specifically, I suspect that all Steve would need to do is to change the name, and possibly some of the details, in order to be AOK on this issue. After all, HT clearly "ripped off" the concept from Jack Vance's The Dragon Masters -- I remember thinking that when I first got Chitin I back in the day! Heck, at least one of the names of the creatures is the same... Which means that he didn't actually "create" the idea. Conceptually, we all know that some insect species differentiate individuals by the task they are bred to undertake, and it's not too far a reach to presume that an intelligent insect race would take that even further than merely warriors, workers, drones and queens. In fact, the entire premise of Starship Troopers (both the book and the really bad movie) was based on precisely that sort of idea, so there's nothing original in HT's adaptation of The Dragon Masters to insects. In short, he might be able to bring a case if absolutely nothing were changed, but it would be a weak case unless he can legitimately claim (and prove) actual trademark violations somewhere along the line.

Last edited by JLV; 01-05-2018 at 01:15 PM.
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