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Old 12-24-2017, 06:05 PM   #21
Icelander
 
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Default Re: [Basic] Disadvantage of the week: Callous

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Originally Posted by Flyndaran View Post
You seem to be interpreting it to be far worse than -5.
Not at all. Callous causes a situational reaction penalty and a -2 to two skills.

It also has significant benefits, which are especially important in games with realistic psychological trauma, in that Callous characters suffer far less mental stress or guilt from taking violent and ruthless actions, which PCs tend to do a lot.
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Old 12-24-2017, 08:18 PM   #22
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Default Re: [Basic] Disadvantage of the week: Callous

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I would base the decision on effect, not justification. Sense of Duty works with Callous, but unless you limit Callous so that it excludes the person cared for, the character will still not care about their feelings, just their well-being.

This means they still suffer the skill and reaction penalty with regards to that character, even if they are motivated to help them through Sense of Duty.
Justification affects effect. I would absolutely not exempt the full [-5] version from skill penalties for anyone. Just because they make you happy doesn't mean you know how to care about their feelings — only that if you hurt those feelings too much, they might stop.
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Old 12-24-2017, 09:08 PM   #23
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Default Re: [Basic] Disadvantage of the week: Callous

That suggests you have allies suffer social and appearance modifiers which seem a bit silly. If I'm someone's friend, then their habits and shovel-hit-looking-face have no effect on me.
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Old 12-24-2017, 09:19 PM   #24
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Default Re: [Basic] Disadvantage of the week: Callous

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That suggests you have allies suffer social and appearance modifiers which seem a bit silly. If I'm someone's friend, then their habits and shovel-hit-looking-face have no effect on me.
Don't they? I know that I'm still affected by my friends' more odious habits. Sure, they don't always have an affect on my interactions with then — but sometimes you just can't deal with this or that thing a friend does this time. Seems to me that's best reflected as all normal reaction modifiers for the situation applying, plus more or less of a hefty "Friendship" reaction bonus that gives the desired reaction in most situations.
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Old 12-24-2017, 09:27 PM   #25
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Default Re: [Basic] Disadvantage of the week: Callous

I don't make friends with people that annoy the crud out of me.
But as I am quite atypical in most social aspects, I should have more fully thought out my assumptions here.
I know people that stayed friends with those they really kind of dislike and have little in common with.
I retract my objections for Gaming purposes and majority of NPCs.
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Old 12-25-2017, 05:24 AM   #26
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Default Re: [Basic] Disadvantage of the week: Callous

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Originally Posted by Icelander View Post
Not at all. Callous causes a situational reaction penalty and a -2 to two skills.

It also has significant benefits, which are especially important in games with realistic psychological trauma, in that Callous characters suffer far less mental stress or guilt from taking violent and ruthless actions, which PCs tend to do a lot.
Yeah, I was originally planning to post something along the lines of "this seems worse than Bully [-10]" – but Bully constrains your behaviour in every social interaction, constantly forcing you to play dominance games with everyone you meet, while with Callous you can fake being a normal person most of the time.
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Old 02-23-2018, 09:21 PM   #27
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Default Re: [Basic] Disadvantage of the week: Callous

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Yeah, I was originally planning to post something along the lines of "this seems worse than Bully [-10]" – but Bully constrains your behaviour in every social interaction, constantly forcing you to play dominance games with everyone you meet, while with Callous you can fake being a normal person most of the time.
Just so. I wouldn't want anyone to misinterpret what I'm saying to mean that characters with Bully or Callous don't suffer Reaction penalties.

I just mean that it's common for PCs to elect to care for other PCs or NPCs that they determine to be important to their PC, despite their horrific Disadvantages.

Bully, Callous and other negative Reaction PCs can still realistically roleplay a reaction to other PCs or NPCs that is substantially above zero. And yes, that can play out very like Man on Fire or John Wick for players inspired by that sort of fiction.
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Old 02-23-2018, 10:31 PM   #28
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Default Re: [Basic] Disadvantage of the week: Callous

Slight necro… Recently I came across a clear example of Callous as a disadvantage, which definitely seemed relevant to this discussion.

Tywin Lannister.

Long-term, continued association with him leads to loyalty penalties from his harshness. All his children have suffered it, with him psychologically tearing them apart the moment they backtalk him. So that’s -3 to Influence skills and -1 reactions with them. It’s of course offset by his Status, Charisma, and other traits, but it’s still a long-term problem. Sooner or later everybody ends up harbouring resentments against him.

Meaning as soon as House Lannister enters decline, people are ready to turn against him.

Aside from that, his pushing his goals might qualify as Selfish & Stubbornness, but the point is he doesn’t care what they want, which leads to bad decisions – he pushes Jaime to be the son and heir, Cersei to be the good wife, and Tyrion to be out of the way and not upstage the children he cares about.

I think his problems were less from a single disadvantage than the “disadvantage soup” combining together to something worse than the effects of any individual one. But Callous is part of the problem because he doesn’t give much weight to how they feel about his plans for them, and instead of channelling their drive towards something more constructive he instead keeps on pushing them towards things they don’t want to do or be.
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