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Old 12-07-2017, 05:04 AM   #11
Tomsdad
 
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Default Re: Extra heads and peripheral/360 vision.

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Originally Posted by Otaku View Post
Still a bit high for what it grants you...

...unless you're in the right campaign. Might be worth the 15 CP in a campaign that is combat heavy, using the advanced combat rules (maps, miniatures, etc.). Oh, and lacking anything too fantastic (so either some or mo magic, psi, etc.). Especially TL4 or less.

Which reminds me, I think its price stems from Man-To-Man, and has never quite managed to convince that it should be reduced.
True, but that's also true for a lot of combat relevant advantages, and equally a lot of non combat advantages will be over priced according to their utility in a campaign centered around combat.

i.e Combat reflexes is likely not worth the points in my Dangerous liaisons campaign, and the player who sinks 30 points into wealth and status advantages might start wishing they hadn't when they hit Juno in my D-Day campaign :-)
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Old 12-07-2017, 10:40 AM   #12
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Default Re: Extra heads and peripheral/360 vision.

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True, but that's also true for a lot of combat relevant advantages, and equally a lot of non combat advantages will be over priced according to their utility in a campaign centered around combat.

i.e Combat reflexes is likely not worth the points in my Dangerous liaisons campaign, and the player who sinks 30 points into wealth and status advantages might start wishing they hadn't when they hit Juno in my D-Day campaign :-)
Yes, yes. Sometimes, I wish CP costs in GURPS books (especially Basic) were based on a clear middle ground setting or given as a range based on campaign styles. Yes, that is a lot to ask; wishing doesn't mean I want to pay someone to do that much work. XP
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Old 12-07-2017, 11:13 AM   #13
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Default Re: Extra heads and peripheral/360 vision.

Peripheral Vision is definitely combat centered. And I can say from in-play that it's worth every single one of those 15 points.

Defend from attacks from behind at -2 instead of verboten.
Defend from attacks on the sides with no flanking penalty.

Attack into your side hexes, with melee and ranged weapons.

See things in your side hexes at no penalty, see things behind you at a small penalty (instead of verboten).
Get a bonus to see when you're being Shadowed, as you have no blind spot.

Any time an advantage allows you to do completely forbidden things, it's worth a serious chunk of points.

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Yes, yes. Sometimes, I wish CP costs in GURPS books (especially Basic) were based on a clear middle ground setting
I don't think there is such a thing that anyone can agree on. As such, pricing combat traits on their utility in combat, social traits in their utility in social events, etc etc is the only consistent baseline.

We could do with a discussion of a special "But I don't see that coming up in my campaign" modifier, definitely.
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Old 12-07-2017, 11:17 AM   #14
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Default Re: Extra heads and peripheral/360 vision.

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Peripheral Vision is definitely combat centered. And I can say from in-play that it's worth every single one of those 15 points.
Yeah, gotta agree here. And you absolutely don't need to be using the tactical hex rules for those benefits to apply - I basically never use them, but I still describe intelligent enemies flanking and going for rear attacks, if they can, and Peripheral Vision is useful there. In particular, the bonus against rear attacks - the difference between "no defense at all" and "-2 to defend" is huge.
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Old 12-07-2017, 12:29 PM   #15
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Default Re: Extra heads and peripheral/360 vision.

A good question is... should those situations be common enough to be worth 15 CP?

I definitely see why it was priced at 15 CP based on what Bruno and Kelley Pederson have definitely given me. Those situations haven't happened to me a lot, probably because the bulk of my experience is from my high school gaming days. Some of it may have been the GMs taking it easy on us.* Some of it might have been because of campaign power level.** Some of it might be because we tried to avoid getting ourselves into such situations.***

*Or just being inexperienced and not thinking about it themselves.
**Too high and you tend to have other ways of compensating. Too low and you're still screwed even with Peripheral Vision.
***Lest I sound too cocky, that includes all those times we got ourselves into bad, bad, bad situations where our enemies didn't need the help. XP
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Old 12-07-2017, 12:52 PM   #16
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Default Re: Extra heads and peripheral/360 vision.

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A good question is... should those situations be common enough to be worth 15 CP?

I definitely see why it was priced at 15 CP based on what Bruno and Kelley Pederson have definitely given me. Those situations haven't happened to me a lot, probably because the bulk of my experience is from my high school gaming days. Some of it may have been the GMs taking it easy on us.* Some of it might have been because of campaign power level.** Some of it might be because we tried to avoid getting ourselves into such situations.***

*Or just being inexperienced and not thinking about it themselves.
**Too high and you tend to have other ways of compensating. Too low and you're still screwed even with Peripheral Vision.
***Lest I sound too cocky, that includes all those times we got ourselves into bad, bad, bad situations where our enemies didn't need the help. XP
I've literally never played a GURPS combat where these facing issues didn't come up. At the very least, a combatant gets attacked from the side once, and usually many times as fighters vie for positional advantage.
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Old 12-07-2017, 01:01 PM   #17
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Default Re: Extra heads and peripheral/360 vision.

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A good question is... should those situations be common enough to be worth 15 CP?
Can't speak to anyone else's games, of course, but to me and the groups I'm in, "try to flank the opponents" and "attack from behind if possible" are both absolutely standard tactics, to the point that we'll pretty much always arrange ourselves to do it to others, or prevent it being done to us.
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Old 12-07-2017, 01:23 PM   #18
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Default Re: Extra heads and peripheral/360 vision.

It's tricky to get a true back attack without surprise or outright surrounding your enemy.

It's nearly impossible to prevent at least some side attacks in a melee unless you've got some kind of seriously secure position or formation, or perhaps are only facing one enemy.
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Old 12-07-2017, 02:04 PM   #19
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Default Re: Extra heads and peripheral/360 vision.

Peripheral Vision is helpful in high powered martial arts games, when a martial artist might face six enemies at the same time. It also helps in military games (especially when combined with high Per and high Night Vision), as it allows effective protection against nocturnal infiltration and allows for effective night sentry elimination (stealth characters should consider buying Peripheral Vision to effectively allows them to watch their own back).
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Old 12-07-2017, 02:57 PM   #20
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Default Re: Extra heads and peripheral/360 vision.

I don't think my previous post was all that good, and I mean at a fundamental level. Some words floating around in sentences where they don't belong because I probably changed thoughts while writing and forgot to go back and fix them. Oops. I also tried to be a bit humorous and instead it was confusing so I'm going to try again. I know not every comment made since then is addressed to me, either; pardon me not quoting or naming everyone, but I'm out of time to be specific. ^^'

...I haven't played in a lot of GURPS combats where Peripheral Vision was worth it. I am aware that proves nothing, and even admitted that much (most?) of this was due to stuff like not taking full advantage of the combat system, or intentionally taking it easy. I figured that out with just Bruno and Kelley Pederson responding to me. I realize I should have said

Quote:
Might be a bit high for what it grants you...

...unless you're in the right campaign. Usually be worth the 15 CP in a campaign that is combat heavy, using the advanced combat rules (maps, miniatures, etc.).
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Last edited by Otaku; 12-07-2017 at 03:15 PM.
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