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Old 12-03-2017, 06:07 PM   #1
Lup3rcal
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Default Committed Attack Abuse

By default, committed attacks allow two steps. This has lead to scenarios on our tabletop where a heavily encumbered or prone player effectively doubles their movement by "Committed Attacking the Air". This feels cheesy to me.

Arguments for:
  • Its kind of like "all-out attack, double step" in that it penalizes your defences in return for mobility.
  • By RAW, it is allowed as nothing disputes it. Steps are each 1/10 movement rounded up.

Arguments against:
  • This feels like a rules exploit
  • You shouldn't be able to be as mobile on the ground or in 400lbs of armour as when you're standing and making attacks wearing 10lbs of clothing.
  • Hell, you're actually faster when committed attacking the air than taking a full movement action in both above scenarios

I'd love to hear other people's opinions on the matter.
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Old 12-03-2017, 06:20 PM   #2
Varyon
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Default Re: Committed Attack Abuse

Regardless of how many Steps you get - from Maneuvers, Extra Effort, or Chambara Movement - I don't think you should be able to move further than whatever your current Move is restricted to. Some campaigns may opt to ignore such a restriction - Chambara ones, for example - but in such a case you have ways of getting the extra movement without relying on the above Committed Attack exploit.
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Old 12-03-2017, 06:21 PM   #3
Apollonian
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Default Re: Committed Attack Abuse

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lup3rcal View Post
By default, committed attacks allow two steps. This has lead to scenarios on our tabletop where a heavily encumbered or prone player effectively doubles their movement by "Committed Attacking the Air". This feels cheesy to me.

Arguments for:
  • Its kind of like "all-out attack, double step" in that it penalizes your defences in return for mobility.
  • By RAW, it is allowed as nothing disputes it. Steps are each 1/10 movement rounded up.

Arguments against:
  • This feels like a rules exploit
  • You shouldn't be able to be as mobile on the ground or in 400lbs of armour as when you're standing and making attacks wearing 10lbs of clothing.
  • Hell, you're actually faster when committed attacking the air than taking a full movement action in both above scenarios

I'd love to hear other people's opinions on the matter.
I'd let 'em do it at a cost of 1 FP per maneuver.
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Old 12-03-2017, 06:25 PM   #4
Anaraxes
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Default Re: Committed Attack Abuse

Rule Zero. *shrug*

I wouldn't let people "attack the air" constantly, simply because with no targets you're not in combat time in the first place, and so the tactical map (and thus necessary hex-rounding errors), Maneuvers, and Steps are irrelevant.
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Old 12-03-2017, 07:28 PM   #5
AlexanderHowl
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Default Re: Committed Attack Abuse

Yes, you cannot Committed Attack when there is no one to attack (it cannot be used as a closing maneuver by a stupidly encumbered person). Of course, you could have their enemies shoot them when they try it, the -2 Defense would teach them the errors of their ways.
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Old 12-03-2017, 09:02 PM   #6
sir_pudding
Wielder of Smart Pants
 
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
Default Re: Committed Attack Abuse

I don't know if it is explicit anywhere, but logically you shouldn't be able to move more than your Move with Steps in one turn. Objects with No Legs (Sessile) don't get to walk when they are attacking things.
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Old 12-03-2017, 11:49 PM   #7
Tomsdad
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Brighton
Default Re: Committed Attack Abuse

Yep I agree with the suggestion that you can't step in total more then your Move adjusted for encumbrance. MA coming out after Campaigns means you have to fit it into the encumbrance/move rules.

Another way to hit this tactic is using "Last gasp". Anyone who's encumbered themselves down to Mv1 and is taking committed attacks at 2AP (and another 1AP for the 2nd step option) just to move around the combat area, is going to have issues relatively quickly.


On top of that is a house rule on Last gasp I've used which is to penalise starting flurry AP by encumbrance level (but I give it back in other ways as well though).

Last edited by Tomsdad; 12-04-2017 at 01:27 AM.
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Old 12-04-2017, 12:15 AM   #8
PK
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Dobbstown Sane Asylum
Default Re: Committed Attack Abuse

Rule Zero definitely applies here, but if it helps, please consider this a FAQ:

Committed Attack was never intended to act as a superior alternative to Move! As a general rule, no "Step and . . ." maneuver should ever provide movement greater than what you could accomplish via a Move maneuver.
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Old 12-04-2017, 11:02 AM   #9
Mr Frost
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
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Default Re: Committed Attack Abuse

Quote:
Originally Posted by PK View Post
Rule Zero definitely applies here, but if it helps, please consider this a FAQ:

Committed Attack was never intended to act as a superior alternative to Move! As a general rule, no "Step and . . ." maneuver should ever provide movement greater than what you could accomplish via a Move maneuver.
If they begin standing and end the turn prone I'd allow an extra hex or 2 {the length of their body} as a sort of lunge , but no acrobatic stand rinse and repeat shenanigans .
The attack would probably be at fighting prone penalties and a Last Gasp cost should apply .
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Old 12-04-2017, 03:40 PM   #10
Say, it isn't that bad!
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Default Re: Committed Attack Abuse

Ah, this reminds of computer games, and exploits. :D

For example, in old games such as Half-Life 1, movement forward and horizontal was added, but not normalized, meaning that you could move faster by running diagonally.

Some games, particularly those without "air drag" but with "ground drag", allowed faster jumping or "bunny hop" movement.

Carefully moving yourself around the hill to find just the right spot to jump over the "untraversable" terrain to get to a "forbidden" or "later" area of the map.

Sounds like your players want to play a video game in tabletop. Maybe you need to discuss that with them...

...Ask them how they feel about being blocked by invulnerable knee-high shrubbery. :D
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