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Old 11-27-2017, 02:00 PM   #11
corwyn
 
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Default Re: [Basic] Disadvantage of the week: Bad Temper and Berserk

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Originally Posted by johndallman View Post
Only When Berserk is -20% (Power-Ups 8: Limitations p16), and we can reverse-engineer from that.

The positive parts of Berserk would seem to be Immune to Pain [30], which handles the shock and stun immunity, Hard to Kill +4 [8], and Hard to Subdue +4 [8]. That's [46], -20%, total [37].

If Berserk didn't give you those bonuses it would, by this reasoning, be [-45] or [-50], roughly equivalent to Terminally Ill (Two Years).
Well that's probably about 2 years minus a day less than he would have before he died.
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Old 11-27-2017, 02:43 PM   #12
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Default Re: [Basic] Disadvantage of the week: Bad Temper and Berserk

In thinking how to roleplay this, a couple things come to mind...

1) since Martial Arts clarified that Slams receive full Move (not half move as normal) during All Out Attacks, would this mean that all Slams done by Berserkers are All-Out?

2) would choosing Strong for bonus damage be more common that Determined for bonus skill?

3) would Flying Tackle always be chosen to increase skill so that Strong could be chosen for damage?

4) if Flying Tackle was not mandatory... but your distance made it impossible to Slam unless you did a flying tackle, RP-wise would you be obligated to do it (or Pounce) unless you had a long enough weapon in hand that you could Move+Attack with it? I dunno Shield Rush could also substitute since shields have range 1 but not sure if that only applies to Bashes or also Slams (in which case a Flying Tackle Shield Rush might be +2 range?)

5) if you had a weapon more dangerous than a slam but your Move was not enough to reach them, would you be obligated to do either a Flying Attack (jumping) or an All Out Attack Long (lunging) if that would allow you to hit?

I've been thinking about this with zombies... hard to recall if any went into a forward dive (Flying Tackle) or a lunge (AOALong Grab) trying to grab someone. A lot of the time they seem to go forward at a controlled pace to avoid falling. I don't think the Flying Attack is common except for the rare variant speed zombies.

Even if zombies do not seem interested in attacks, giving them a Grabbing Parry could make sense since that is basically a free opportunity attack against someone... though I think that might be more about just getting a free hold than necessarily stopping the hit... which should actually be possible. Perhaps a "non-parrying Grabbing Parry" would be a special technique benefit where requiring the first roll to succeed is not necessary?

A non-parrying Aggressive Parry and striking with the mouth instead of the arm also seems within the realm of zombie imagination.

Though I've never really liked the inability to defend against those, I remember some technique based on tripping (interdiciton?) which did allow a defense against it. If you can see someone reacting in an Aggressive/Grabbing way there should be an option to comprehend it (perception based combat roll?) and stop short (roll dodge or parry to withdraw attacking limb?) in response to a successful attack. Since it is a non-contact parry this could not also be a grabbing/aggressive parry.
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Old 11-27-2017, 11:12 PM   #13
Flyndaran
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Default Re: [Basic] Disadvantage of the week: Bad Temper and Berserk

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Originally Posted by RogerBW View Post
I don't really understand "losing one's temper" and the whole threat-display escalation thing (well, I can see it in theory, but I don't know it from the inside), so I find it difficult to play characters who do it, but I try it occasionally. I find Bad Temper goes well with Stubborn: I'm fed up arguing about this now, so I'm going to shout at you.
...
Similar but with very important differences. I had a very bad temper before puberty, but was not stubborn. I was quite wishy-washy unless someone pressed my buttons for too long, usually my brother.

Even trying to get back into that head-space would feel like getting out of the shower and into old soiled clothes.

It was an uncontrollable explosion of emotion where the choice was in what got destroyed not if. To avoid causing severe injury to my brother, the best I could do was toss drinks in his face, punch his back, or throw the bunk bed across the room. I did that last thing at age 7.

Thank goodness puberty inverted my personality/nature, otherwise I'd be dead or in prison.
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Old 11-27-2017, 11:25 PM   #14
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Default Re: [Basic] Disadvantage of the week: Bad Temper and Berserk

I think too often, people play Bad Temper as some sort of 'semi-Berserk'.

I had a bad-tempered Knight in DF, and he was a hoot. The reaction is supposed to be generally appropriate to the situation, so many times he simply cursed (like a sailor) at someone that everyone else in the party would ignore (or politely defer to). He also disadvantaged himself by removing himself from situations where he FELT like he was going to lose his temper. That meant that he wasn't making the self-control roll, but it also meant that I was also unable to contribute in situations where I could have been useful (kind of like the squeamish person avoiding muck and grue).

I don't think he EVER just attacked someone from anger. On the other hand, having a incredibly filthy mouth, and a Vow to accept any challenge to single combat meant that there were probably several more fights than were strictly necessary.

Also not the best guy to have around when the Important Person has rambunctious children around during the whole Quest-getting or Reward-giving phase.
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Old 11-28-2017, 01:47 PM   #15
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Default Re: [Basic] Disadvantage of the week: Bad Temper and Berserk

My tale has Berserk leading to the party meeting Halfling nuns. No, really.

We have a younger player (James) in our group, who's RP repertoire runs from "Hit it with a stick" to "shot it with a firearm". Good kid, but he's just that kind of player.

In my Banestorm campaign, he was playing a fighter type. The group was starting off in Caithness, and the violence was taking it's time finding them. So he was bored; spent most of the session trying to get another person (PC / NPC) to spar with him. Near the end of the session, the NPC Dwarf agreed to it. What he didn't tell her, or anyone else, was that he had berserk as a disadvantage. The mock combat proceeded normally, until the Dwarf landed a hit. It was to "first blood" (there was a healer mage in the group), but he failed his CR.

Eventually, I GM fiated a pastille of calming into the alchemist's inventory, to allow him another CR (which he passed). Bows had been drawn, and a ST17 crossbow was loaded at that point.

The Dwarf had landed a crippling blow to his knee (didn't stop him). Last die roll of the session was him rolling 18 on this crippling injury recovery.

---------------------------

They were in Halfling country, and the mage didn't know Recovery, nor did they have the cash to buy a casting...

They left him in a local (Halfling) Convent, that takes the lame and very ill, to recover. James plays a Halfling thief/archer now.
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Old 11-29-2017, 02:09 AM   #16
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Default Re: [Basic] Disadvantage of the week: Bad Temper and Berserk

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Originally Posted by cvannrederode View Post
Eventually, I GM fiated a pastille of calming into the alchemist's inventory, to allow him another CR (which he passed). Bows had been drawn, and a ST17 crossbow was loaded at that point.

The Dwarf had landed a crippling blow to his knee (didn't stop him). Last die roll of the session was him rolling 18 on this crippling injury recovery.
Oh right. We had another fantasy game at one point were one of the PC's had berserk. He was the typical "big brute fighter" type. But it really worked to his advantage! He had enough DR and was plain lucky, so he always killed his opponents before they could take real advantage of him AOA'ing.

The only problem came after the fight, when he was still berserking and only his friends where still standing! It came to a point where it was a well calculated strategic consideration for the group - to have the abilities and spells left to be able to take down their berserker-friend down after the battle, without hurting him. Mostly because "hurting him" usually meant having to kill him to make him stop.

And often, if the enemies weren't that dangerous, they would try to convince the berserker to try to stay a bit behind in order to avoid having to waste more energy taking him down after the fight, than having to simply deal with the enemies without him. "No no, you did enough yesterday. Your still wounded. Have some wine, we got this!" Towards the end they had managed to put so much DR on him and he had bought his HP so high, that if was actually rare he was forced to make Berserk CR rolls from damage... resulting in him sometimes voluntarily berserking- to the other players chagrin.

It was fun. :)

Last edited by Maz; 11-29-2017 at 02:14 AM.
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Old 11-29-2017, 05:47 AM   #17
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Default Re: [Basic] Disadvantage of the week: Bad Temper and Berserk

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Originally Posted by Maz View Post
Oh right. We had another fantasy game at one point were one of the PC's had berserk. He was the typical "big brute fighter" type. But it really worked to his advantage! He had enough DR and was plain lucky, so he always killed his opponents before they could take real advantage of him AOA'ing.

The only problem came after the fight, when he was still berserking and only his friends where still standing! It came to a point where it was a well calculated strategic consideration for the group - to have the abilities and spells left to be able to take down their berserker-friend down after the battle, without hurting him. Mostly because "hurting him" usually meant having to kill him to make him stop.

And often, if the enemies weren't that dangerous, they would try to convince the berserker to try to stay a bit behind in order to avoid having to waste more energy taking him down after the fight, than having to simply deal with the enemies without him. "No no, you did enough yesterday. Your still wounded. Have some wine, we got this!" Towards the end they had managed to put so much DR on him and he had bought his HP so high, that if was actually rare he was forced to make Berserk CR rolls from damage... resulting in him sometimes voluntarily berserking- to the other players chagrin.

It was fun. :)
This is why Berserk became unpopular around our table, because it literally causes the character to occasionally attack their allies, or with Bad Temper attack people with lethal force. It creates a situation where the more effective a fighter the character is, the more of a problem they become. Meaning the “big brute fighter” is a massive problem for the group. I’d actually be more wary of that than of Social Stigma: Monster when going around town (obvious acts of mercy can quickly establish the Monster is less dangerous than thought, whereas Berserk = can go into killing rage on a dime).

Quote:
Originally Posted by cvannrederode View Post
The Dwarf had landed a crippling blow to his knee (didn't stop him). Last die roll of the session was him rolling 18 on this crippling injury recovery.

---------------------------

They were in Halfling country, and the mage didn't know Recovery, nor did they have the cash to buy a casting...

They left him in a local (Halfling) Convent, that takes the lame and very ill, to recover. James plays a Halfling thief/archer now.
Another great point, Berserk’s ability to tank damage still means ending the fight with a lot of unnecessary injury.
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Old 12-02-2017, 12:39 PM   #18
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Default Re: [Basic] Disadvantage of the week: Bad Temper and Berserk

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Originally Posted by johndallman View Post
Only When Berserk is -20% (Power-Ups 8: Limitations p16), and we can reverse-engineer from that.

The positive parts of Berserk would seem to be Immune to Pain [30], which handles the shock and stun immunity, Hard to Kill +4 [8], and Hard to Subdue +4 [8]. That's [46], -20%, total [37].

If Berserk didn't give you those bonuses it would, by this reasoning, be [-45] or [-50], roughly equivalent to Terminally Ill (Two Years).
Thanks! Especially for breaking it down so well; you know how I prefer to have the smallest possible "components" for tailoring things. I don't what exactly what I might - let alone will - do with such toys, but it is fun to have. I mean, I do have some ideas for the completely stripped down version. I've known more than a few brats (whether spoiled children or pampered adults) that fly into a rage, and comical or tragic results of it.

Coupled with this option not being presented in [Basic], it can make for a nasty or a nice surprise in an NPC.
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