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Old 11-26-2017, 09:32 PM   #1
Steel Lemming
 
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Default Terrain modifiers for INF riding vehicles?

Do infantry riding vehicles get a terrain modifier to defense normally or just whatever terrain modifier the vehicle they are riding on gets?

Example: a squad of 3 INF riding a GEV-PC in the open has normal defense. They are driven along a road into a forest. Do they get the 2x Def bonus for being in forest or no multiplier because as riders they aren't as agile? Similar with towns, 3x or only 2x (that the GEV-PC gets) because riding?

I've always assumed they DO get their terrain modifier if they are riding ON the vehicles (figuring they still have options like hiding behind hard points on the vehicle or diving off at the last second into a ditch if the vehicle is about to get killed). I also don't see anything that says they don't in rules.

Not seeing anything about them losing the def multiplier if they are riding IN vehicles either though. And I'm not sure that makes sense. Why would they be 3x harder to kill being in an exploding truck in the city vs in the open? They aren't really 'in' the city. They're stuck in a truck.


REF 5.11.2 Combat involving infantry riding vehicles.
The vehicle and infantry may both fire normally. After all, the speeding vehicle is a stable firing platform, compared to what these infantry are used to.

If the vehicle + infantry combination is fired on, the attacker makes one die roll for each attack on the combination, but calculates the odds separately for the vehicle and all the infantry and applies the results separately. Example: A Howitzer fires on a Superheavy Tank carrying two squads of infantry. The die roll is a 3. The attack is a 3-to-1 on the two infantry (so a 3 eliminates both), but only a 1-to-1 on the Superheavy (so a 3 has no effect). This procedure is followed in both normal combat and overruns. Note that a tank will often survive a hit that kills it's riders, but even if the vehicle is a truck, the battlesuited riders may survive the hit that kills the vehicle.
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Old 11-27-2017, 09:01 AM   #2
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Default Re: Terrain modifiers for INF riding vehicles?

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Originally Posted by Steel Lemming View Post
Do infantry riding vehicles get a terrain modifier to defense normally or just whatever terrain modifier the vehicle they are riding on gets?

Example: a squad of 3 INF riding a GEV-PC in the open has normal defense. They are driven along a road into a forest. Do they get the 2x Def bonus for being in forest or no multiplier because as riders they aren't as agile? Similar with towns, 3x or only 2x (that the GEV-PC gets) because riding?

I've always assumed they DO get their terrain modifier if they are riding ON the vehicles (figuring they still have options like hiding behind hard points on the vehicle or diving off at the last second into a ditch if the vehicle is about to get killed). I also don't see anything that says they don't in rules.

Not seeing anything about them losing the def multiplier if they are riding IN vehicles either though. And I'm not sure that makes sense. Why would they be 3x harder to kill being in an exploding truck in the city vs in the open? They aren't really 'in' the city. They're stuck in a truck.
IIRC, they do get the INF terrain defense modifier while riding vehicles, at least right now. I can't remember if there was a discussion about possibly changing it or not.

As to INF IN a vehicle, they should probably get nothing, as they cannot use the terrain to their advantage. INF inside a vehicle cannot fight, and therefore in my mind probably should have every disadvantage to defending as well (since part of the "defense" has always been active countermeasures, which aren't possible from inside the back of a truck). For realism, they probably shouldn't even get the advantage of grouping together for D2 (if there are 2 squads in the truck), but for gameplay purposes it's better to simplify things and let them..

A truck in town gets D1 because the terrain makes it harder to hit. But once you do it's pretty much toast no matter what. The INF inside the truck shouldn't be much harder to kill if you can toast the truck itself...
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Old 11-27-2017, 12:45 PM   #3
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Default Re: Terrain modifiers for INF riding vehicles?

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Originally Posted by offsides View Post
IIRC, they do get the INF terrain defense modifier while riding vehicles, at least right now. I can't remember if there was a discussion about possibly changing it or not.

As to INF IN a vehicle, they should probably get nothing, as they cannot use the terrain to their advantage. INF inside a vehicle cannot fight, and therefore in my mind probably should have every disadvantage to defending as well (since part of the "defense" has always been active countermeasures, which aren't possible from inside the back of a truck). For realism, they probably shouldn't even get the advantage of grouping together for D2 (if there are 2 squads in the truck), but for gameplay purposes it's better to simplify things and let them..

A truck in town gets D1 because the terrain makes it harder to hit. But once you do it's pretty much toast no matter what. The INF inside the truck shouldn't be much harder to kill if you can toast the truck itself...
There's been lengthly discussions about it, in various places. My recollection of the current state of discussion is they get the bonus of the unit they are riding. I'll have to see if I can find they related threads, but I'm hoping this makes it into the errata/FAQ details.
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Old 11-27-2017, 11:09 PM   #4
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Default Re: Terrain modifiers for INF riding vehicles?

Found the latest discussion in the FAQ/Errata thread starting at post #111

I don't believe the errata or FAQ draft has been updated to clarify which way it should go, but we left it with INF getting the bonus of the unit they are riding. INF need to explicitly dismount to get their own terrain bonus, otherwise, they share the fate of the unit they are riding. That's kind of the point.

Since INF riding *in* a unit came up, it's worth also addressing that. The only place that occurs is with [hover]trucks. Regardless of how the rule for riding ON a unit gets resolved, it's pretty clear that INF riding IN a unit have no way to get a terrain bonus that's different from the unit they are inside.
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Old 11-28-2017, 08:02 AM   #5
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Default Re: Terrain modifiers for INF riding vehicles?

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Originally Posted by GranitePenguin View Post
Found the latest discussion in the FAQ/Errata thread starting at post #111

I don't believe the errata or FAQ draft has been updated to clarify which way it should go, but we left it with INF getting the bonus of the unit they are riding. INF need to explicitly dismount to get their own terrain bonus, otherwise, they share the fate of the unit they are riding. That's kind of the point.

Since INF riding *in* a unit came up, it's worth also addressing that. The only place that occurs is with [hover]trucks. Regardless of how the rule for riding ON a unit gets resolved, it's pretty clear that INF riding IN a unit have no way to get a terrain bonus that's different from the unit they are inside.
I thought I had seen something recently. I agree that giving them the same bonus as the vehicle makes the most sense, even if I see reasons for doing other things. But yes, this should definitely be clarified in the updated rules, as it's more than just a FAQ question.
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Old 11-28-2017, 07:42 PM   #6
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Default Re: Terrain modifiers for INF riding vehicles?

They receive only the bonus of the vehicle, and not of being Infantry.

D.
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Old 11-29-2017, 12:04 AM   #7
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Default Re: Terrain modifiers for INF riding vehicles?

@GranitePenguin: Thank you for the direct link!
@Wolf90: So, I'm taking this as "official" since it's coming from you. Will the 6eODEpdf get updated with this rules clarification?
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Old 11-29-2017, 06:31 PM   #8
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Default Re: Terrain modifiers for INF riding vehicles?

Yep.

"It's in there!"

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Old 11-29-2017, 09:04 PM   #9
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Default Re: Terrain modifiers for INF riding vehicles?

Thank You! I downloaded the original and honestly hadn't checked to see if it had changed since then. Mea culpa.
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Old 11-29-2017, 09:44 PM   #10
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Default Re: Terrain modifiers for INF riding vehicles?

Whoops. Uhm, I can't find the rule update in the pdf.
Did you mean this one?: http://www.sjgames.com/ogre/products...e_rulebook.pdf
If it IS there, I'm blind. Would you take pity on me and give me the rule number that refers to defensive strength of INF riding vehicles that are fired upon please?
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