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Old 11-01-2017, 09:35 PM   #21
evileeyore's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: 100 hurricane swamp
Default Re: [DF] Question about "You All Meet at an Inn" [Pyramid 98]

Originally Posted by Bruno View Post
I'll note that the rest of the party, including the definitely-never-played-tabletop players, had already caught on to Never Split The Party and were yelling at the barbarian to STAY. STAY. GOOD BOY. Didn't work.
MMOers should all be familiar enough with Leroy Jenkins that they understand, "Never Split the Party", or at least "Follow The Group Leader's Orders".
Feel free to steal, borrow, fold, spindle, mutilate any rule, advantage, etc I come up with it.
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Old 11-19-2017, 09:56 AM   #22
Join Date: Dec 2004
Default Re: [DF] Question about "You All Meet at an Inn" [Pyramid 98]

Thank you so much, everyone, for your thoughts on this thread.

Especially, thanks to Bruno for recounting her experience with this adventure!

I agree that the adventure should make the assumption that no one starts with a magic weapon. This is a separate issue, that might deserve its own thread, but I've never seen why anyone would start with an enchanted weapon (aside from Staff, obviously). By the time I've paid for the Wealth to afford the enchantment, I could have purchased many extra levels of weapon skill or ST for damage or whatever other ability I wanted to have, and it would work with *any* weapon I happen to be wielding rather than only the one magic weapon (which is likely to be lost/broken/stolen unless I purchase Signature Gear for it too).

I think my main concern with the scenario under discussion is with the bottleneck of descending the well. The text seems to indicate that the monsters appear as soon as characters emerge from the well shaft: "Near the bottom of the well shaft, a rough opening leads to.... The room is initially empty, but if anyone enters [a Flame Lord and the first Toxifier spawn]." There doesn't seem to be any option for the party to gather in the room before the monsters spawn.

If the party could all gather in the room before the enemies spawn, then that seems more winnable (though perhaps still challenging, at least for folks new to DF). There should be a caster present by that point, so they'd have a chance. But how to get them all down there at once? I get that DF isn't exactly about realism, but it strains credulity, for me, to have multiple SM=0 characters climbing down a well with a < 1 yard diameter entrance at the same time. Perhaps if they threw down multiple ropes and climbed down slightly staggered, that could work. Or if some casters know Levitation.

Maybe I could just modify the adventure so that the monsters spawn once someone touches the far door, as it sounds like Bruno's GM did.

So let's see, for defeating the Toxifiers, what did we come up with?

- If using the optional rule for worthy foes, they'll drop at 0HP
- They'll likely drop unconscious fairly quickly, due to HT10, even without the rule above, once reduced below 0HP
- Holy symbols to keep them at bay until you can douse the torches (and maybe force them into the well???)
- True Faith (though the Toxifiers only need to be 1 yard away, so they can still hit you with their attack...)
- Area of effect or cone spells to bypass Diffuse
- Air spells that produce wind to deal double damage (not that there are a lot of those)
- Banish spell (though the spell costs a *lot*, no? I haven't added up the point total of a Toxifier, but the spell costs 1 energy per 10 points of the target)

Some of these require the delvers to know what they're fighting. So Hidden Lore (Demons) would be helpful.

Anything else I'm missing or not understanding?
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Old 04-05-2018, 12:52 PM   #23
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Default Re: [DF] Question about "You All Meet at an Inn" [Pyramid 98]

A few months of necromancy here but this is under discussion again, and reviewing this thread brings up a few points.

First though: Why would you ever spend money on a magic weapon at character creation? Why, so you can kill monsters that can only be killed by magic weapons. *shrug*

A few other notes:

Diffuse creatures can be damaged by area of effect damage of any origin, not "spells" specifically - alchemical fire certainly suits that, and I recommend having at least a little around. You can make do with just one I suppose, if you can get creative about pushing them into the flaming hex, but I'd recommend a party start with at least two.

Affect Spirits would work IMO to allow a weapon to do full damage, although it's not a quick and easy cast.

"Magic weapon" is not formally defined, and is an interesting question. I definitely count weapons that are under the effect of a Flaming Weapon or Flaming Missiles spell (and Lightning Weapon and so forth) - it's not a permanent effect, but regular old enchantments don't have to be permanent either.
Those are some straightforward "weapon-y" effects so the questionable part is that it's not formally enchanted (I fall on the side of the spell counting as this means parties can plan for them a little better).
I count an Affect Spirits weapon as sufficient to kill them dead like the flaming weapon. It's a weapon targeting spell and it's specifically for killing spirits so I feel very solid on that one.

Is a weapon with any random magical effect on it a "magic weapon"? That's a more interesting question and I'm going to go start a thread about it.

Asked the question over in the DFRPG forum
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Last edited by Bruno; 04-05-2018 at 01:08 PM.
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Old 04-05-2018, 04:50 PM   #24
Join Date: Feb 2005
Default Re: [DF] Question about "You All Meet at an Inn" [Pyramid 98]

Originally Posted by Tinman View Post
Yeah, it is.
Newly formed party =/ new adventurers.

Linear thinking will get you killed.

Iirc there’s one rope provided in the well. Doesn’t mean only one rope can go IN the well if the party provides their own additional ropes.

Why would the first character down go off on their own? Tactics work in RPGs... pathfinder holds what he has and waits for backup.

Is a weapon with any random magical effect on it a "magic weapon"
Saw a debate on a DND forum a long time ago regarding whether casting Light or some other innocuous spell on a weapon made it a magic weapon for some purpose or other.

The consensus was, not for overcoming damage resistance which explicitly requires +1, +2, etc... but for other purposes it could be.

Last edited by tanksoldier; 04-05-2018 at 04:56 PM.
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