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Old 11-05-2017, 10:47 PM   #31
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Default Re: If interstellar Colonies become possible, who goes first?

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Originally Posted by Flyndaran View Post
It seems that the only reasonable motivation for full colonies rather than scientific outposts is one of extreme somewhat self-harming xenophobia. Religious zealotry just being a subset of that.
I think that would be true, in many cases. However, others would want to do it, just to do it, "because it's there."

I mean, I'm not a xenophobe or a sociopath, but if I had the skills needed and somebody made me an offer, I'd go help colonize Mars, without hesitation. What a great thing to do with one's life!

Sometimes, people do things just to do them, or for the adventure of it, or just because they find everyday life tediously dull.

I think it would be awesome to be the first person to ever walk through a particular valley, or see the view from the top of a particular hill. While I don't think there are all that many people with similar outlooks, there are certainly enough to colonize any number of planets, over the course of several centuries.
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Old 11-05-2017, 11:01 PM   #32
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Default Re: If interstellar Colonies become possible, who goes first?

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That really doesn't matter. Even if we handwave transport costs to zero (which is not what your proposal does), colonizing an extrasolar planet would be a lot of effort for no real benefit. Someone might do it as a PR stunt, but you won't get anything significant until there's a better reason than "because we can".
Most of the same arguments, albeit at a smaller scale, apply to distant colonization in general, including historically on Earth.

Yet humans, and human societies, do expand. Sometimes the reasons make economic sense, sometimes they don't. But the expansion happens.
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Old 11-05-2017, 11:04 PM   #33
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Default Re: If interstellar Colonies become possible, who goes first?

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What, and leave their children no chance of visiting Jerusalem / Rome / Mecca / Salt Lake City / Izumo / insert-other-important-religious-locations-on-Earth ever again? I suspect they'd stay on Earth and send everybody else instead, if they had the ability.
Some would indeed take exactly that position. Some might even generate colonists by more or less forcing rivals to find somewhere else.

You would find religious groups that just want to get away, and religious groups (broadly defining religion to mean a lot of cultural traits) that wanted to stay, including some apparently following the same tenets.

Ultimately, make the travel cheap enough (not necessarily free, or even economically cost-effective, just cheap enough, and before long somebody will use it. Their reasons might strike others as mad. A lot of Englishmen, including hard-core Puritans, thought the foundation of Massachusetts Bay was madness. But it was founded, and in time it grew into one of the richest areas in the world.
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Old 11-05-2017, 11:06 PM   #34
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Default Re: If interstellar Colonies become possible, who goes first?

That island over there is still orders of magnitude easier and safer than that hostile alien unknown extrasolar planet even for THS people with limited superscience.
I did mention how I think small scientific outposts make sense. It's just full sized colonies that are unlikely regardless of anything but the most setting altering superscience.
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Old 11-06-2017, 04:41 PM   #35
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Default Re: If interstellar Colonies become possible, who goes first?

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That island over there is still orders of magnitude easier and safer than that hostile alien unknown extrasolar planet even for THS people with limited superscience.
I did mention how I think small scientific outposts make sense. It's just full sized colonies that are unlikely regardless of anything but the most setting altering superscience.
If you have the small outposts, they would likely become the nucleus of a settlement colony.
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Old 11-06-2017, 04:59 PM   #36
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Default Re: If interstellar Colonies become possible, who goes first?

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If you have the small outposts, they would likely become the nucleus of a settlement colony.
Not necessarily. A lot of small outposts either remain small outposts, or vanish.
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Old 11-06-2017, 05:08 PM   #37
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Default Re: If interstellar Colonies become possible, who goes first?

If for example an advanced ruined alien civilization is discovered, you might have sufficient interest and motivation for more extensive scientific settlements, even with some military support, and all the supporting infrastructure that entails.
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Old 11-06-2017, 05:53 PM   #38
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Default Re: If interstellar Colonies become possible, who goes first?

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If you have the small outposts, they would likely become the nucleus of a settlement colony.
There's no settlement colony in Antarctica now for a reason.
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Old 11-06-2017, 05:55 PM   #39
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If for example an advanced ruined alien civilization is discovered, you might have sufficient interest and motivation for more extensive scientific settlements, even with some military support, and all the supporting infrastructure that entails.
But is that realistic? I imagine one could get serious funding for any alien archaeology, even stone age level, even in THS. No need for advanced, depending on how you define that word.
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Old 11-06-2017, 06:05 PM   #40
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Default Re: If interstellar Colonies become possible, who goes first?

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There's no settlement colony in Antarctica now for a reason.
The support infrastructure at McMurdo is extensive, and a few people live there year-round. It effectively is a small town. There are no children though. It certainly stretches any clear boundry between "outpost" and "settlement".
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But is that realistic?
Given the Great Silence, it seems more realistic than a nearby active civilization approaching Type I or higher.
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I imagine one could get serious funding for any alien archaeology, even stone age level, even in THS. No need for advanced, depending on how you define that word.
Archeology of low tech alien ruins has significantly less of an economic and security motive.

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