Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Board and Card Games > Car Wars

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-25-2017, 09:03 AM   #1
Suncrush
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Default House rules feedback

I'm getting back into the game after 16 years away, and forgetting some of the streamlining house rules I used to use. Someone linked the NOVA club rules in another thread, and I was wondering what people thought about them.
  • No tire shots in the arena--I used to use this because dedicated tire snipers wrecked the local meta. I feel this is a popular house rule.
  • No turrets on race cars--How does this impact racing? I feel like almost all race cars use a turret, and I'm curious how banning them improves racing.
  • No maneuvering-induced to-hit penalties--I feel like these get forgotten a lot at casual tables, anyway, but how does this affect game balance?
Suncrush is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2017, 12:53 PM   #2
Blue Ghost
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Spinward Marches
Default Re: House rules feedback

Tire sniping is one of those "potential jackpot" effects that could make or break a session. It's like being in a Tae Kwon Do or professional boxing tournament, and kicking the groin when you're told not to. If the guy your fighting is skilled enough, he can block or avoid that strike. Unfortunately with Car Wars all the armored wheel hubs and well covers won't protect you from a lucky hit.

Having said all that, none of the groups I've ever been with have ever actually employed that ... maybe once, but I can't really remember. Our thinking was that it was part of the game. You have a tire, and if you can see any part of it, you can hit it.

-DMs for maneuvering, to me, should be an optional rule. Any fighter pilot or professional online FPS gamer worth his salt will tell you that your movement tends to be independent of your aiming. It's integrated in that you can use movement to adjust your aim, but it's only one tool you have to put your crosshairs on a target. Likewise, if you were in an actual autoduel in the Car Wars-verse, I would think that as you drive your car you would be aware of "traffic" in the arena as you both aim and maneuvre your vehicle.

When I occasionally, (though rarely these days) do Counter Strike, you're multitasking and negotiating your movement with your aim. If you're suddenly taking fire from the side or someplace, your movement is only affected in terms of you reacting to gain cover, dodge, or otherwise to throw off your attackers aim, but, at the same time, you're moving your mouse to rotate your in game character to aim in response to that fire. All FPS games are like that, and if you're good you really don't have a -DM as you return fire. It just usually who gets the drop on the other guy to score more damage the decides who gets killed.

The one difference to that is when two players are at "long range " and using longarms like a sniper rifle of some kind to hit the other guy. Then moving left to right can throw off your aim as both of you jink to get a better shot. In that situation a -DM is noticeable. I think the same would hold true for cars in an arena. Ergo I don't like negative die modifiers for people maneuvreing.

I really don't have an opinion about turrets on race cars. Eh, I would think they might effect the top speed because of aerodynamics, and possibly maneuvreing at high speeds, but I don't see an issue with them in and of itself.
Blue Ghost is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2017, 01:08 PM   #3
Suncrush
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Default Re: House rules feedback

Cheers. I appreciate the thoughts.
Suncrush is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2017, 04:28 PM   #4
43Supporter
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Default Re: House rules feedback

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suncrush View Post
I'm getting back into the game after 16 years away, and forgetting some of the streamlining house rules I used to use. Someone linked the NOVA club rules in another thread, and I was wondering what people thought about them.
Well, I have to confess, I am Prejudiced -- you see, I helped *write* them.... :)

That said:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Suncrush View Post
No tire shots in the arena--I used to use this because dedicated tire snipers wrecked the local meta. I feel this is a popular house rule.
It's almost a necessity these days, with 6-8d6 batteries being commonly available; the absolute maximum damage a car tire can take is 45 points (25 for Metal, 10 WH, 10 WG), while the average damage from three linked RRs with HEAT (the baseline for NOVA duels of Div. 25 or greater) is 27 points, so a car can take maybe 2 shots before its mobility is compromised, and maybe 4 to render it immobile. And that's *before* factoring in dropped weapons, particularly in "Checkerboard of Doom" configuration (1 B, 1 either L or R; anyone driving over that hits at least one counter dead on, and is in secondary-activation range of two others; now calculate what this does with incendiary SDs).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suncrush View Post
No turrets on race cars--How does this impact racing? I feel like almost all race cars use a turret, and I'm curious how banning them improves racing.
The ban on turrets was the result of HMGs -- being able to bring 4d6 to bear any direction was a bit much.

If one limits the allowed damage of the weapons in the event -- my cap was "6 points max. per shot, to include damage caused over multiple turns" (otherwise incendiary ammo becomes commonplace) -- one can allow turrets.

The idea was (as stated) to focus on Speed and Maneuvering rather than Blasting Opponents To Tapioca -- if we wanted to do that, we'd run a normal arena duel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suncrush View Post
No maneuvering-induced to-hit penalties--I feel like these get forgotten a lot at casual tables, anyway, but how does this affect game balance?
Mainly, it makes scoring hits less likely; which means more wasted ammo, and a greater likelihood of the event becoming a ram-fest (remember; Ramming doesn't have a to-hit...).
__________________
"Dale *who*?"

The Jeremy Clarkson Debate Course:
1) I'm Right. 2) You're Wrong. 3) The End.
43Supporter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2017, 04:57 PM   #5
swordtart
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Default Re: House rules feedback

Quote:
Originally Posted by 43Supporter View Post
the absolute maximum damage a car tire can take is 45 points (25 for Metal, 10 WH, 10 WG)
Metal tires don't exist any more. Gone, like Anti-Vehicular ammo.
swordtart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2017, 06:35 AM   #6
Suncrush
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Default Re: House rules feedback

Quote:
Originally Posted by 43Supporter View Post
Well, I have to confess, I am Prejudiced -- you see, I helped *write* them.... :)
Thanks. The philosophy behind the rules helps them make a lot of sense.
Suncrush is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2017, 12:20 PM   #7
Lindmark71
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Default Re: House rules feedback

Are Plasticore Tires still legal?
I general stick with solids, or steel belted solids for maximum effect, if needed, along with guards and hubs when available.

Drive offensively

Curt
Lindmark71 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2017, 01:04 PM   #8
kjamma4
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Chicagoland Area, Illinois
Default Re: House rules feedback

Quote:
Originally Posted by swordtart View Post
Metal tires don't exist any more. Gone, like Anti-Vehicular ammo.
Yeah, I was going to make a comment about 43's longevity showing here but you beat me to it. :)
kjamma4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2017, 05:06 PM   #9
43Supporter
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Default Re: House rules feedback

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suncrush View Post
Thanks. The philosophy behind the rules helps them make a lot of sense.
[nod] One of the first steps I take in writing rules is to write down "what is this rule supposed to accomplish" -- if I can't explain to *myself* what I intend with a rule, how am I going to explain it to anyone else?

In the case of the NOVA rules, there was a problem with "racing" events: Inevitably someone would turn up with a duelling car, and try to "win the race" by evaporating the competition. This seemed to run counter to the point of racing, which is "speed and handling" (the original _Dueltrack_ manual talks a bit about this). So, one limited the number (and in some cases the damage potential) of weapons, which naturally pushed the players towards building cars oriented toward Speed and Handling (if for no other reason than: There wasn't anything else to spend money on :) ). Weapons were mainly used not for outright destroying foes, but for adding those couple hazard Ds which made the difference between cruising through a corner, and going through said corner sideways (in more than one event, a car was taken out by a weapons hit which resulted in a CT roll which caused a tire blowout at speed).

Same with the "no tire shots" rule for duels -- someone in a "Backfire" in _ADQ_ made reference to "the six-second duel of tires); ours were closer to four seconds, but still led to "no-score draw" endings where everyone was immobile and unable to fire upon anyone else. Banning tire shots had some unusual "knock-on effects" as well: It all-but-forced players to bring usable dropped weapons to duels; and it helped neutralize the "cosmic spitball" ram-cars which started taking over after the introduction of the confetti rule (hint: Ramcars *really* don't like flame clouds... :) ).

Oh, and one more point: The reference to "metal tires" was a joke -- I've been doing this since Haring was a corporal. (I'm old enough to remember when dropped weapons could only be mounted on the B facing, which is why they have the 1-2 activation zone as well as the 1-4.) :)
__________________
"Dale *who*?"

The Jeremy Clarkson Debate Course:
1) I'm Right. 2) You're Wrong. 3) The End.
43Supporter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2017, 07:03 AM   #10
Suncrush
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Default Re: House rules feedback

I was doing a motorcycle race last night, and found I need a house rule for motorcycle wrecks. If you look up MotoGP on Youtube, you'll see amply demonstrated that losing control of a racing bike at 150 mph is usually a walk-away-from it incident with modern racing gear, but in CW, it's an autosplat, hope-you-had-a-pre-programmed-clone event.
Suncrush is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:43 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.