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Old 12-16-2017, 05:05 PM   #41
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Default Re: Your favorite Official Vehicle Design

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Originally Posted by Racer View Post
Unfortunately all 'Classic' Cycle designs are obsolete now . Any without a Windshell or Component Armoured Cyclist are far too vulnerable to Burst Effect weapons to survive long in Combat, on today's Roads .
I cannot concur with that -- an equal value of RR-equipped bikes is going to clobber a single car (for ex.: Six _Gazelle_ later-models vs. a _Moose_) unless said car is a "tail-end Charlie" and the bikes come in from behind (think _Bodyguard_ or _Katana 2034_). And, as noted: With custom cars, even "updated" bikes are going to get chopped to pieces.
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Old 12-17-2017, 01:59 AM   #42
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Default Re: Your favorite Official Vehicle Design

Another consideration is that bikes don't have to last long, they only have to last long enough.

Massed cheap bikes driven by Dregs who are desperate or psychotic can challenge even well armed convoys. The chase by massed expendable forces is a staple of the genre. If they catch you they get to eat, if they don't, there are less mouths to feed and the gang is winnowed of it's weakest members. It's a harsh strategy, but not wholly without logic.

As the expense of the bike rises then their efficiency diminishes.
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Old 12-17-2017, 04:26 AM   #43
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Default Re: Your favorite Official Vehicle Design

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Another consideration is that bikes don't have to last long, they only have to last long enough.
Back to the Fuzzy-Wuzzy Fallacy, and overkill: your laser may kill one bike per shot, but that's a very inefficient use of damage when a machine gun or an RR could do the same thing and you could shoot at more bikes at the same time.

ETA to clarify: because you can fit more machine guns / RRs in the same vehicle space, budget, etc.

Last edited by RogerBW; 12-17-2017 at 05:36 AM.
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Old 12-17-2017, 02:03 PM   #44
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Default Re: Your favorite Official Vehicle Design

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Back to the Fuzzy-Wuzzy Fallacy, and overkill: your laser may kill one bike per shot, but that's a very inefficient use of damage when a machine gun or an RR could do the same thing and you could shoot at more bikes at the same time.

ETA to clarify: because you can fit more machine guns / RRs in the same vehicle space, budget, etc.
Rate of fire, in terms of individual targets, is a function of number of crew & ATADs, as well as weapons.
A single crewman with 5 MG's is still only shooting one guy each turn.
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Old 12-17-2017, 02:06 PM   #45
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Default Re: Your favorite Official Vehicle Design

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Back to the Fuzzy-Wuzzy Fallacy, and overkill: your laser may kill one bike per shot, but that's a very inefficient use of damage when a machine gun or an RR could do the same thing and you could shoot at more bikes at the same time.

ETA to clarify: because you can fit more machine guns / RRs in the same vehicle space, budget, etc.
The problem is: in order to shoot more than one bike per turn, one needs either:

-- More than one gunner, or;
-- One weapon which can hit multiple targets at once.

The Flame Cloud was, to my mind, the death of the cycle gang -- they come storming up in a pack, and <FLOONT>. Not even mines or spikes in the "checkerboard of doom" pattern could manage that level of single-shot devastation. And Cycle Windshells and/or Component Armor didn't help; the FC hit *every* exposed surface, so that armor went away fast.
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Old 12-19-2017, 02:26 PM   #46
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Default Re: Your favorite Official Vehicle Design

Yeah clearly applying 4x damage to a windshell from a FC is not a smart interpretation of the rules - each cycle component should only take damage once - so a windshell cycle should be able to drive through a couple FCs. A windshell should protect all 'internal' components of the bike until the armor is breached (engine, cyclist, weapons).

CA cycles should also be fine (but a windshell is better for a FC because each component will take separate FC damage).

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Originally Posted by 43Supporter View Post
The problem is: in order to shoot more than one bike per turn, one needs either:

-- More than one gunner, or;
-- One weapon which can hit multiple targets at once.

The Flame Cloud was, to my mind, the death of the cycle gang -- they come storming up in a pack, and <FLOONT>. Not even mines or spikes in the "checkerboard of doom" pattern could manage that level of single-shot devastation. And Cycle Windshells and/or Component Armor didn't help; the FC hit *every* exposed surface, so that armor went away fast.
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Old 12-19-2017, 03:26 PM   #47
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Default Re: Your favorite Official Vehicle Design

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Yeah clearly applying 4x damage to a windshell from a FC is not a smart interpretation of the rules - each cycle component should only take damage once - so a windshell cycle should be able to drive through a couple FCs. A windshell should protect all 'internal' components of the bike until the armor is breached (engine, cyclist, weapons).
Fortunately for the bikes, we *didn't* interpret it that way. Even then: An armored windshell only has 12 DP; even at 1d6-1 damage, it doesn't last long (and if it isn't FP...).

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Originally Posted by juris View Post
CA cycles should also be fine (but a windshell is better for a FC because each component will take separate FC damage).
As noted: It depends on how one handles FC damage against a CW. Also: How does one roll damage for a FC? (In my case: One roll for everything; otherwise, one can be ages rolling damage.)

Still: With only 10 DP available (plus whatever DP is being protected), it doesn't last long.
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Old 12-20-2017, 12:47 PM   #48
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Default Re: Your favorite Official Vehicle Design

You are not obliged to drive into a FC of course ;) Bikes can very easily go off-road to avoid them if necessary and stopping is perfectly effective. Wait for them to go out and re-pursue.

We have discussed FCs before and I do not believe they can affect all 4 armour locations anyway. An armour location behind another armour location is not exposed.

If damage penetrates it is treated as any other damage, it doesn't go on to "infect" all interior locations. As the "exposed" components on a bike are still behind front armour if it is breached any remaining damage goes on to hit only a single component. Subsequent damage will also only affect a single component (possibly one that has already been destroyed and thus have no effect).
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Old 01-05-2018, 03:17 AM   #49
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Default Re: Your favorite Official Vehicle Design

The Gaijin & Tachi from Pyramid #3 'Recon in Force' Scenario , are nice 'Military style' Mid & Luxury respectively .

The Busnought Model G for ADQ #9/4's 'The Great Asp Hunt' is great in many ways - especially if you wish to carry 20 passengers .
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