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Old 10-11-2017, 11:40 PM   #1
evileeyore
 
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Default [House Rules] Extra Effort in Combat - Quick and Easy

Since the optional stuff from GURPS Basic is off the menu for DFRPG (the quick and easy to use Extra Effort in Combat rules) but the more roll heavy and complicated Extra Effort (in general) rules are still in play... I want to hash out some quick and easy House Rules for using Extra Effort in combat without having to do all the rolls...

House Rules:
1 - All rolls are for Extra Effort in Combat are considered to be a 12 for the Margin of Success (MoS) determination, there is no failure or critical failure, if your will or Will-based skill is below 12, it costs 1 additional FP.
2 - Round to nearest, but you will always get at least a +1.
3 - All attack tasks last for one attack, all defense tasks last the turn.
4 - Non-attack and defense tasks last as per the regular Extra Effort rules (exception, Extra Effort for movement only lasts 10 turns).
5 - You cannot add to your "attack skill" itself, however you can offset penalties this way.

Damage:
Will-based attack skill.

Defenses:
Parries and Blocks are Will-based skill, and Dodge is straight Will or Will-based Acrobatics if they have Acrobatics.

Movement:
Straight Will or Will-based movement skills.

Simple enough.

Just figure the Margins of Success in advance, and your combat is back to being quick and easy!


Example:

Stronkdud the Barbarian has a ST of 17, Will of 10 and has Two-Handed Flail at DX+6. If he wanted to Extra Effort ST for a smashing blow, it costs 1 FP and his ST is treated as 20 for damage purposes, so his damage goes up by +2 thrust and +3 swing (or if you prefer using more dice, just figure out his new damage at his temporary ST).

Stronkdud is fighting Wights with lifedrain! They ignore, nay, they laugh at his Tough Skin and Ankient Hereditorial Armor as all they need do is touch him! He desperately needs to defend... he could Dodge but has no Acrobatics, his Will is a 10, and his Dodge is a 9. So if he pays 2 FP he can get a +1 to his Dodges for a turn. Or he can push himself to Parry more quickly, his Two-Handed Flail skill is DX+6, and his Parry is 13. So he could pay 1 FP and push his Parry up to a 16.




Thoughts?
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Old 11-08-2017, 02:35 PM   #2
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Default Re: [House Rules] Extra Effort in Combat - Quick and Easy

Quote:
Originally Posted by evileeyore View Post
Thoughts?
Hi evileeyore,

I understand there can be various approaches for handling Extra Effort in Combat, and here you show one of them.

Not seeking to diminish your effort and creativity, it's that I just love the approach to Extra Effort in Combat of the GURPS Basic Set: Campaigns book (page 357), providing options like Feverish Defense, Flurry of Blows and Mighty Blows (see below). I also like very much how other GURPS 4E books like Powers and Martial Arts expand this very approach with additional, compatible options, and I believe it's just great for the Dungeon Fantasy RPG.

I wonder, then, if it would be possible to rephrase the three options from the Basic Set for Extra Effort in Combat, and to have them as optional rules for the DFRPG here in this sub-forum, according to this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
And as we're not going to soften our other forums rules against pasting text from our products here, in practice this means that when you add mods that are really just GURPS rules, you're going to be explaining them in your own words.
So it could be, if I'm not mistaken, this for instance:

Quote:
Extra Effort in Combat: For using extra effort in combat, you must announce it and spend FP before any roll related to your choice. Critical failures don't go well with these options, adding to the usual results 1 HP of injury (regardless DR) to the arm or leg (to parry, block or attack with shield, weapon or hand affects the arm; to dodge or kick affects the leg).

This optional rule opens the following three options:

Feverish Defense: by spending 1 FP you get +2 to an active defense roll, just to one; this option isn't available if you take the All-Out Attack maneuver.

Flurry of Blows: by spending 1 FP per attack, you get half the penalty for Rapid Strike (Exploits, p. 38).

Mighty Blows: by spending 1 FP per attack, you get the damage bonus of an All-Out Attack (Strong) (see Exploits, p. 30) without negatively affecting your defensive capabilities.

Flurry of Blows and Mighty Blows can't be used at once.
To my mind, these are the same optional rules from the Basic Set (p. 357) expressed with my own words (of course I'm open to any corrections or to substitution for better versions!). But I'd like to be entirely sure if something like this is truly allowed.
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Old 11-08-2017, 03:30 PM   #3
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Default Re: [House Rules] Extra Effort in Combat - Quick and Easy

Isn't the simplest option to just use the GURPS rules?
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Old 11-08-2017, 03:50 PM   #4
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Default Re: [House Rules] Extra Effort in Combat - Quick and Easy

Part of my point is just to use the optional GURPS rules for Extra Effort in Combat. I put them in my earlier post above, but rephrased with my own words.

FWIW with "I'm open to better versions", I just mean better rephrasing than mine. And if posting that is allowed, then I can't see any interest in diverging here, with optional DFRPG rules or mods, from the GURPS 4E Basic Set rules —which again, concerning Extra Effort in Combat are also expanded in other books like Powers and Martial Arts.
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Old 11-08-2017, 11:01 PM   #5
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Default Re: [House Rules] Extra Effort in Combat - Quick and Easy

Quote:
Originally Posted by demonsbane View Post
Not seeking to diminish your effort and creativity, it's that I just love the approach to Extra Effort in Combat of the GURPS Basic Set: Campaigns book (page 357)...
I agree! i just wanted to see if I could come up with a "quick and easy" way to use the rules that were in DFRPG, rather than porting over from GURPS Basic, or codifying my own variant of them.

Literally I am baffled by the decision not to include them* as an option in DFRPG, they fit the theme and scope of the game perfectly. Hopefully they'll be a "Martial Options" book put out at some point that will contain them (and other things drawn from Basic and Martial Arts and even other places).




* Yes... I can see why Kromm made that decision, but I clearly disagree with it. My Barbarian has a load of Fatigue that is just sitting around in fights not being a useful resource... even his HP is more useful resource for him spend (via taking hits for friends) than his FP will ever be.

I've also toyed with the idea of turning them into 'martial' Power-Ups, 1 a 1 point Advantage maybe.
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Last edited by evileeyore; 11-08-2017 at 11:13 PM.
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Old 11-08-2017, 11:30 PM   #6
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Default Re: [House Rules] Extra Effort in Combat - Quick and Easy

Quote:
Originally Posted by evileeyore View Post
I agree! i just wanted to see if I could come up with a "quick and easy" way to use the rules that were in DFRPG, rather than porting over from GURPS Basic, or codifying my own variant of them.

Literally I am baffled by the decision not to include them* as an option in DFRPG, they fit the theme and scope of the game perfectly. Hopefully they'll be a "Martial Options" book put out at some point that will contain them (and other things drawn from Basic and Martial Arts and even other places).




* Yes... I can see why Kromm made that decision, but I clearly disagree with it. My Barbarian has a load of Fatigue that is just sitting around in fights not being a useful resource... even his HP is more useful resource for him spend (via taking hits for friends) than his FP will ever be.

I've also toyed with the idea of turning them into 'martial' Power-Ups, 1 a 1 point Advantage maybe.
Something I nearly missed, but will make my dwarf swashbuckler's extra fatigue way more useful, is the exceptional traits on Exploits p.93 Kiai and Power Blow on a swashbuckler are awesome options. Although there's nothing similar on Barbarians in particular. I'm going to push for a 1 point advantage allowing DX to replace will on power blow to be incorporated into our DFRPG options as soon as the GM starts allowing us to copy things from the GURPS DF books.
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Old 11-09-2017, 12:06 AM   #7
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Default Re: [House Rules] Extra Effort in Combat - Quick and Easy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colarmel View Post
I'm going to push for a 1 point advantage allowing DX to replace will on power blow to be incorporated into our DFRPG options as soon as the GM starts allowing us to copy things from the GURPS DF books.
I find pushing for HT is the easier sell...
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Old 11-09-2017, 08:59 AM   #8
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Default Re: [House Rules] Extra Effort in Combat - Quick and Easy

Quote:
Originally Posted by evileeyore View Post
I find pushing for HT is the easier sell...
The GURPS DF swashbuckler splatbook had a 1 pt advantage that allowed power blow or flying leap based on DX.
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Old 11-09-2017, 09:25 AM   #9
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Default Re: [House Rules] Extra Effort in Combat - Quick and Easy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colarmel View Post
The GURPS DF swashbuckler splatbook had a 1 pt advantage that allowed power blow or flying leap based on DX.
I know. However:

1 - This isn't DF.

2 - As a GM myself I'm generally more willing to allow things like this if it isn't switching power skills from a set of secondary stats to the PC's primary core stat, but to another secondary (but still very useful) stat.

3 - Kiai is already a based on HT, so this would only require switching Power Blow to a new stat.

4 - In DF (if we're going there anyway) Barbarian's can get Power Blow switched to HT with an identical Advantage, so this isn't exactly ground breaking.
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Old 11-09-2017, 09:32 AM   #10
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Default Re: [House Rules] Extra Effort in Combat - Quick and Easy

Quote:
Originally Posted by evileeyore View Post
I know. However:

1 - This isn't DF.

2 - As a GM myself I'm generally more willing to allow things like this if it isn't switching power skills from a set of secondary stats to the PC's primary core stat, but to another secondary (but still very useful) stat.

3 - Kiai is already a based on HT, so this would only require switching Power Blow to a new stat.

4 - In DF (if we're going there anyway) Barbarian's can get Power Blow switched to HT with an identical Advantage, so this isn't exactly ground breaking.
I don't disagree on any particular point, except that my GM is more likely to allow bringing in something from extant books than modifying anything in an off-book. But I'm in an unusually RAW game, we won't be breaking into other things until advancement starts feeling cramped.
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