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Old 10-04-2017, 11:35 AM   #11
JMason
 
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Default Re: DF Implied Cosmology

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Originally Posted by evileeyore View Post
This interpretation would mean that the presence of cities wouldn't affect it, as cities are also full of living beings.
Also would deserts (both cold and hot) have less Nature's Strength than a city? I think this might need to be revised a bit. I prefer the idea that "nature" is in rocks, wind, sand, rain, and well as in trees and animals, but only in a "natural" or wild form. Stone formed by erosion, not cut by tools. That sort of thing.

There is a big "grey" area here like is damming a river un-natural? What about when beavers do it? Is harnessing the wind okay... and at what level? Wind chimes? kites? windmills?
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Old 10-04-2017, 11:56 AM   #12
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Default Re: DF Implied Cosmology

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I have a mental model where reality is a house, the Gods are the "owners," Squiddies are "vermin," and the rest of creation is "furniture" or "servants."
Oh, it's much worse than that!

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Mana is the collective life force of all deities, associated with no one of their kind and capable of existing independently of them as long as there are any gods.

Elder Things are innately reality-warping and live in the higher dimensions from which mana leaks [...] Their powers are some sort of mana unfiltered for mortals – much as gods' powers are unfiltered for themselves but "stepped down" for clerics.
That is, the gods' collective existence gives rise to mana, and mana's reality-warping effects empower and possibly even beget the Elder Things. Thus, Elder Things aren't merely vermin in the house of the gods . . . Elder Things are a reaction to the gods' very existence. In effect, they're a supernatural virus or prion that evolved in or from the supernatural genetic matter of the gods. They're a literal plague on the godhead and on Creation – Anti-Life in a way that some plague demon that can only infect mortals, even one that detests Creation, could never hope to match. Elder Things aren't against Creation; they endanger its existence because their existence intrinsically endangers its creators, with no more malice than a lethal microbe.

Many unwise mortals are incapable of distinguishing "detests this Creation and is willing to grant powers to mortals to help reboot it" (as with demons and the Evil faction in general) from "threatens Creation, including demons and the rest of the Evil faction, merely by existing" (as with Elder Things). They see only that (1) Creation is The Man, man, keeping mortals down; (2) both the Evil faction and Elder Things stand in opposition to Creation; and, (3) Elder Things can unmake even demons, so they must be more powerful. So some of these fools decide to ask the Elder Things for power, because it's like going right to the top, over the head of the gods and demons. And they're promptly unmade by the simple act of even contacting or being in the presence of beings inimical to Life and Creation. The mind is the first thing to go, as it's so complex and delicately balanced . . .

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I think this means Jedi & Sith are feuding Druid clans.
See also this thread. But more seriously, the Force and Nature's strength have a lot in common in the picture I painted. At first glance the Force might look more like chi or psionics, but those are "my life" and "my mind," respectively, while the Force – like Nature's strength – is "all life" or "all minds."
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Old 10-04-2017, 12:01 PM   #13
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Default Re: DF Implied Cosmology

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Also would deserts (both cold and hot) have less Nature's Strength than a city? I think this might need to be revised a bit. I prefer the idea that "nature" is in rocks, wind, sand, rain, and well as in trees and animals, but only in a "natural" or wild form. Stone formed by erosion, not cut by tools. That sort of thing.
I was paraphrasing. The full wording in Spells makes it clearer. Basically, Nature is personified and alive in Her own right; the sea, the rocks, the air . . . it's all alive. Once you cut the stone, it's no more alive than antlers cut from a deer's head. Low-IQ animals are more like "cells" in Nature's body, so when they dam rivers or whatever, they're doing necessary work. Druids try to do this, too, carefully managing forests and rivers as Nature desires – but most city-builders and woodcutters are motivated by their own needs, not Nature's. So "Life" and "collective life force" refer to Nature, not just plants, animals, etc.

(And yes, if you synthesize this with my previous post, most people are a blight on Nature just as Elder Things are a blight on Creation. The worse people get to blighting Nature by contacting the Elder Things for power and blighting all of Creation. This is probably how druids most often come into conflict with Elder Things: via cultists.)
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Old 10-04-2017, 01:23 PM   #14
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Default Re: DF Implied Cosmology

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This is probably how druids most often come into conflict with Elder Things: via cultists.)
They're also probably rivals for recruiting from the coveted "Chanting circle of wierdos in cloaks around a bonfire in the depths of a dark forest, sacrificing folks on rustic alters with impractical daggers" demographic.
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Old 10-04-2017, 02:16 PM   #15
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Default Re: DF Implied Cosmology

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They're also probably rivals for recruiting from the coveted "Chanting circle of wierdos in cloaks around a bonfire in the depths of a dark forest, sacrificing folks on rustic alters with impractical daggers" demographic.
Yeah, the line between Chesuncook and Summerisle is a thin one.
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Old 10-04-2017, 03:01 PM   #16
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Default Re: DF Implied Cosmology

I'm thinking about cribbing from Exalted a bit.

Clerical magic is basically license from Heaven to perform certain effects in its service. Your license can be suspended or revoked for certain acts. Sanctity is the areas where the authority of Heaven is enforced or recognized. Behind the scenes, Sanctity is where the Pattern Spiders (can't explain, lunch is over) are willing or able to follow you and perform effects at your command.

Druidic magic is the flow of geomagnetic energy. Civilization normally causes static because it seldom grows in harmony with these energy flows. Someplace with good Feng Shui would be better for a druid than a normal town, but still not as good as unspoiled nature.

Arcane magic is the ability to force your personal energy onto reality and cause change. This is easier in places where reality is vibrant and dynamic (most of the world), but falters in the places where reality has already been damaged.
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Old 10-04-2017, 03:07 PM   #17
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Default Re: DF Implied Cosmology

I always envisioned Elder Things as the true nature of reality. Maybe when the gods made creation Elder Things were part of the primordial soup that formed creation. I always got the feeling that people who dealt with Elder Things thought they were magical or spiritual beings who would do favors them and be rewarded like a god would reward worshippers. But the truth was that Elder Things were mundane and banal and the worshippers are like rats hoping to appease a cat. It all ends in tragedy. The Elder Things don't care about souls or good or evil, they just want to eat or experiment and have no grander plans for humanity than that. It is just that they are extradimensional and beyond human comprehension that humanity ascribes them magical or Divine powers.
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Old 10-04-2017, 03:34 PM   #18
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Default Re: DF Implied Cosmology

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I always envisioned Elder Things as the true nature of reality.
Ah, ye olde Amberverse version. I approve.
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Old 10-04-2017, 03:47 PM   #19
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Default Re: DF Implied Cosmology

I tend to think of the prime material plane as merely the board set up by two political parties. Elder things are all the myriad of independents.

This view may make less sense to non-Amerians that lack such a rigid two party system.
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Old 10-04-2017, 05:32 PM   #20
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Default Re: DF Implied Cosmology

One possibility would be to tie the various sources of magic to different "pantheons" of entities. Divine (Clerical) Magic involves devotion and prayer to established, "official" deities. Arcane Magic involves invocations and contracts to the Aethyrs, to harness the power of the Decans. Druidic Magic calls upon Primal spirits of Nature, while Psionics tap into the power of the Elder Gods.
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