Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-29-2017, 06:25 PM   #21
Anthony
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
Default Re: Waterfowl: Amphibious or Racial Swimming Skill?

Hm. Why is walk on liquid [15] while amphibious is [10]? Both will allow you to move across the surface of a body of water at full move, but amphibious also allows you to move underwater and eliminates penalties for operating underwater.

The big advantage of walk on liquid appears to be that your only point of contact is the bottom of your feet. This means you can protect yourself (and your possessions) from harmful effects of liquid by just wearing appropriate shoes, but amphibious really doesn't address how much of your body needs to be immersed.
__________________
My GURPS site and Blog.
Anthony is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2017, 07:27 PM   #22
Ulzgoroth
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Default Re: Waterfowl: Amphibious or Racial Swimming Skill?

Walk On keeping you high and dry has a bunch of knock-on effects. You can plant your feet for a stable position, you can jump or climb from a position fully out of the water, and your weapons are well out of the wet for use as well as wear-and-tear.

Amphibious doesn't change the basics of how you relate to the swimming medium. Something fairly far from human could justify parts that are reliably well clear of the water when at the surface, of course.

EDIT: not saying the price is necessarily wise, though.
__________________
I don't know any 3e, so there is no chance that I am talking about 3e rules by accident.
Ulzgoroth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2017, 08:55 PM   #23
Refplace
 
Refplace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Oklahoma City, OK
Default Re: Waterfowl: Amphibious or Racial Swimming Skill?

The Extra 5 points could be considered more a UB premium but as noted there are some nice benefits.
Another one is your Ground Move is sued for water and land which is useful for Enhanced Move
__________________
Looking for group in my area
REFPLace GURPS Landing Page
My List of GURPS You Tube videos (plus a few other useful items)
Refplace is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2017, 10:07 PM   #24
lwcamp
 
lwcamp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: The plutonium rich regions of Washington State
Default Re: Waterfowl: Amphibious or Racial Swimming Skill?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth View Post
You can plant your feet for a stable position
I was just out on both a kayak and a motorboat today. The water in the Columbia river was pretty choppy, not something I would call stable if you were standing on it, and of course the Yakima river was turbulent and roiling where it was deep and running over riffles where it was shallow and generally moving swiftly in either case except for slack water areas and backwater (and even there you can have eddies swirling around in places). Maybe if you spent 15 points for this advantage you wouldn't have to make DX checks for rough water to stay upright, but it is hard to see how this could be considered any kind of stable footing.

On something of a tangent, but a person in a kayak can paddle faster than a duck in the water. Or at least one person (me) in a kayak can paddle faster than most ducks in the water.

Luke
lwcamp is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2017, 10:55 AM   #25
Bruno
 
Bruno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Canada
Default Re: Waterfowl: Amphibious or Racial Swimming Skill?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lwcamp View Post
On something of a tangent, but a person in a kayak can paddle faster than a duck in the water. Or at least one person (me) in a kayak can paddle faster than most ducks in the water.
You're also using big ol primate arms and a lever (paddle). That and it's a duck, which is a bit wee. It's a little unfair, like comparing a toy poodle running to someone on a bike...
__________________
All about Size Modifier; Grand Unified Hit Location Table
A Wiki for my F2F Group
Bruno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2017, 11:54 AM   #26
Cowrie
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Default Re: Waterfowl: Amphibious or Racial Swimming Skill?

First off, thanks to everyone for the input. I think I'm going to use the aspected Amphibious (Surface Only, -50%) [5] suggested on the first page, combined with a reduced Move score, but the discussion has been really interesting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno View Post
You're also using big ol primate arms and a lever (paddle). That and it's a duck, which is a bit wee. It's a little unfair, like comparing a toy poodle running to someone on a bike...
To be fair, during my research for statting up a swan form, I found that maximum swim speed for swans, while apparently not precisely measured, is estimated at about 5mph. And the circumstances described relative to that 5 mph speed definitely make it sound like a sprinting scenario. While still not comparable to primate arms with a lever, considering the size of swans, it suggests that most waterfowl aren't particularly fast for their size in water any more than on land. Again, diving ducks might be an exception due to legs being further back like other diving birds. OTOH, some of them rank very high for speed in level flight and most of them have pretty good endurance in the air.
Cowrie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2017, 05:09 PM   #27
Humabout
 
Humabout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Default Re: Waterfowl: Amphibious or Racial Swimming Skill?

I like Amphibious (Surface Only, -50%). Would you consider a cormorant as having full Amphibious?
__________________
Buy My Stuff!

Dungeon Action!

My Blog: Above the Flatline.
Humabout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2017, 05:10 PM   #28
lwcamp
 
lwcamp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: The plutonium rich regions of Washington State
Default Re: Waterfowl: Amphibious or Racial Swimming Skill?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno View Post
You're also using big ol primate arms and a lever (paddle). That and it's a duck, which is a bit wee. It's a little unfair, like comparing a toy poodle running to someone on a bike...
It still surprised me though, the first time. I thought "Hmmm. Ducks: Highly adapted to the surface of the water. Me: using non-locomotor appendages for things they were never really adapted for doing. Surely the duck will win". Nope. Of course, they can fly way faster than I can paddle - a fact that they use with great vigor whenever I get within 100 m or so.

The same observation also applies to geese, coots, and swans. Although the coots do this literally running on water thing, partially flying but using their feet to push off from the surface as they go, leaving a series of ripples for tracks until they think they've gone far enough and then - ploop - back into the water.

Luke
lwcamp is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2017, 08:12 PM   #29
Cowrie
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Default Re: Waterfowl: Amphibious or Racial Swimming Skill?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lwcamp View Post
It still surprised me though, the first time. I thought "Hmmm. Ducks: Highly adapted to the surface of the water. Me: using non-locomotor appendages for things they were never really adapted for doing. Surely the duck will win". Nope. Of course, they can fly way faster than I can paddle - a fact that they use with great vigor whenever I get within 100 m or so.

The same observation also applies to geese, coots, and swans. Although the coots do this literally running on water thing, partially flying but using their feet to push off from the surface as they go, leaving a series of ripples for tracks until they think they've gone far enough and then - ploop - back into the water.

Luke
Swans also do a similar running on water thing/half-flying when they're in attack mode. I once saw a video taken by someone on shore of a male swan racing to attack a man in a boat by half-flying like that. Very fast, very scary. It was attached to a news story, the guy in the boat was seriously injured.

@Humabout - Definitely full amphibious for a cormorant. Those birds are excellent divers, more agile underwater than on land. Having all four toes webbed instead of having a free rear toe like ducks is helpful in the water, but makes land-based locomotion even more awkward than the far-back legs alone would.
Cowrie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2017, 05:07 AM   #30
johndallman
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Cambridge, UK
Default Re: Waterfowl: Amphibious or Racial Swimming Skill?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno View Post
... the better they are at swimming, the more the legs get moved to the back of the body (like an outboard motor), leaving them very unbalanced on land.
There's an extreme example of this with the Common Moorhen which has its legs mounted well back on the body, but huge feet to enable it to balance. To stay balanced while walking, it has to move its head in opposition to its legs, which looks very silly.
johndallman is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:41 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.