Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-10-2017, 06:43 PM   #11
Boomerang
 
Boomerang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Default Re: Altered time rate /Great Haste question.

ATR should be awesome, its worth 100 points!

I would not allow the wait manoeuvre tactic to work unless some special circumstances were involved. For example they had seen the ATR fighter use that method of fighting in a previous combat and made a successful tactics roll and had combat reflexes. Or if they had not met before, the character doing the wait manoeuvre had ETS. No way I would allow standard mooks to use a tactic like that.
__________________
The stick you just can't throw away.
Boomerang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2017, 06:53 PM   #12
Leynok
 
Leynok's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Australia WA
Default Re: Altered time rate /Great Haste question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen View Post
Kromm has clarified that ATR does effectively give you two turns in a row, so the All-Out Attack followed by All-Out Defense (or any other maneuver that gives you a defense) actually is valid.
Ah okay, that's nice to know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boomerang View Post
ATR should be awesome, its worth 100 points!

I would not allow the wait manoeuvre tactic to work unless some special circumstances were involved. For example they had seen the ATR fighter use that method of fighting in a previous combat and made a successful tactics roll and had combat reflexes. Or if they had not met before, the character doing the wait manoeuvre had ETS. No way I would allow standard mooks to use a tactic like that.
I agree here, the character who uses this should be familiar with ATR fighters; or maybe I would let them take a turn to do a Per based Tactics roll to come up with the idea during the battle.
The meta of it is much more obvious to us the players than it would be to someone fighting them, with only seconds to come up with anything on the spot under pressure.
Leynok is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2017, 07:04 PM   #13
lachimba
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Sydney
Default Re: Altered time rate /Great Haste question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boomerang View Post
ATR should be awesome, its worth 100 points!

t.
Great Haste costs one point.

Neither of them is Enhanced Time Sense
lachimba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2017, 10:53 PM   #14
Boomerang
 
Boomerang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Default Re: Altered time rate /Great Haste question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lachimba View Post
Great Haste costs one point.

Neither of them is Enhanced Time Sense
I was only talking about ATR, a 100 point advantage should not be so easy to invalidate. In my opinion great haste should be handled differently since the point cost is so much less. Maybe the in game justification for the difference is that being hasted is not your natural state (unlike ATR) and it is much easier to anticipate with the wait manoeuvre.
__________________
The stick you just can't throw away.
Boomerang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2017, 01:15 AM   #15
sir_pudding
Wielder of Smart Pants
 
sir_pudding's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
Default Re: Altered time rate /Great Haste question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boomerang View Post
No way I would allow standard mooks to use a tactic like that.
If you are using those rules Wait isn't a valid option anyway.
sir_pudding is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2017, 02:10 AM   #16
weby
 
weby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Default Re: Altered time rate /Great Haste question.

I have found the way normal ATR works bit annoying with that all out attack-normal attack pattern so in my house rules I use individual initiative and ATR 1 gives an extra action at half the initiative number, ATR 2 gives at 2/3 and 1/3 and so on, that gives more the feel of acting faster.
__________________
--
weby's gaming stuff: http://weby.roto.nu
weby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2017, 02:48 AM   #17
kirbwarrior
 
kirbwarrior's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Dreamland
Default Re: Altered time rate /Great Haste question.

Remember, if your AoD is Dodge, then you can run your entire move with AoA moving half and AoD moving half. You look like a flurry of energy running at normal speed. Honestly only the first level of ATR is fantastic. Every level after is merely great.

Quote:
Originally Posted by weby View Post
I have found the way normal ATR works bit annoying with that all out attack-normal attack pattern so in my house rules I use individual initiative and ATR 1 gives an extra action at half the initiative number, ATR 2 gives at 2/3 and 1/3 and so on, that gives more the feel of acting faster.
I had a GM run ATR like you did, but you subtract 1 from your initiative number each level for simplicity.

EDIT:
Quote:
Originally Posted by lachimba View Post
Great Haste costs one point.
Magic is stronger on all fronts. Great Haste is basically "Afflict: ATR" and should function the same other than how the spell dictates (something about losing FP?).
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmicfish View Post
While I do not think that GURPS is perfect I do think that it is more balanced than what I am likely to create by GM fiat.
kirbwarrior is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2017, 03:17 AM   #18
vicky_molokh
GURPS FAQ Keeper
 
vicky_molokh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Ky´v, Ukraine
Default Re: Altered time rate /Great Haste question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by weby View Post
I have found the way normal ATR works bit annoying with that all out attack-normal attack pattern so in my house rules I use individual initiative and ATR 1 gives an extra action at half the initiative number, ATR 2 gives at 2/3 and 1/3 and so on, that gives more the feel of acting faster.
Every time someone asks why GURPS does not make speedsters harder to hit, we have to point out how AoA+AoD allows people to capitalize on defensive benefits of ATR, and you just go out and remove that tactic . . .
__________________
Vicky 'Molokh', GURPS FAQ and uFAQ Keeper
Also, GURPS Discord is a nice place for (faster) Q&A and overall GURPS dicussion.
vicky_molokh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2017, 09:39 AM   #19
Andreas
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Default Re: Altered time rate /Great Haste question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
Every time someone asks why GURPS does not make speedsters harder to hit, we have to point out how AoA+AoD allows people to capitalize on defensive benefits of ATR, and you just go out and remove that tactic . . .
It is not a very good answer anyway. Not only can waiting negate such a defense, it means that even higher levels of ATR don't further improve defenses. Also someone moving faster should be harder to successfully hit, even if he doesn't change the way he fights to take better advantage of that extra speed.

A better answer would be that a speedster should also buy better defenses to represent the fact that he is hard to hit.

Last edited by Andreas; 09-11-2017 at 09:43 AM.
Andreas is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2017, 09:46 AM   #20
vicky_molokh
GURPS FAQ Keeper
 
vicky_molokh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Ky´v, Ukraine
Default Re: Altered time rate /Great Haste question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andreas View Post
It is not a very good answer anyway. Not only can waiting negate such a defense, it means that even higher levels of ATR don't further improve defenses. Also someone moving faster should be harder to successfully hit, even if he doesn't change the way he fights to take better advantage of that extra speed.

A better answer would be that a speedster should also buy better defenses to represent the fact that he is hard to hit.
Then the question will be 'what does ATR represent?'. Because if it represent doing all the same things faster, then it would be weird for it not to affect the chance to evade at all. This answer is a middle ground compromise between piecemeal purchases (buy what you want to have) and logical consequences of the effects the trait represents.
__________________
Vicky 'Molokh', GURPS FAQ and uFAQ Keeper
Also, GURPS Discord is a nice place for (faster) Q&A and overall GURPS dicussion.
vicky_molokh is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
all out attack, altered time rate, great haste

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:57 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.