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Old 09-07-2017, 04:05 PM   #41
sir_pudding
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Default Re: Spear worth it? fantasy campain

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyndaran View Post
Hammer fist?
In which case the fist is the weapon, not the noodle.
Quote:
But I'm not sure how I'd defend against a crazed maniac wielding a wet noodle in one hand.
By ignoring the noodle as irrelevant.
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Old 09-07-2017, 04:08 PM   #42
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Default Re: Spear worth it? fantasy campain

The point that I think was lost was that just because you don't have a classic weapon in your "off hand" does not mean others should or would ignore it completely.
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Old 09-07-2017, 04:13 PM   #43
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Default Re: Spear worth it? fantasy campain

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Originally Posted by Flyndaran View Post
The point that I think was lost was that just because you don't have a classic weapon in your "off hand" does not mean others should or would ignore it completely.
If that thing is less effective than the fist that holds it then they should. Not " literally anything" it is possible to hold can be "used offensively" in any effective way.
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Old 09-07-2017, 06:51 PM   #44
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Default Re: Spear worth it? fantasy campain

If you're going to be pedantic about my use of "literally", then I can respond by saying that getting slapped with a wet noodle would still count as "offensive". ;)
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Old 09-07-2017, 07:00 PM   #45
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Default Re: Spear worth it? fantasy campain

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Originally Posted by Flyndaran View Post
Hammer fist? But I'm not sure how I'd defend against a crazed maniac wielding a wet noodle in one hand.
By getting saucy. Of course.
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Old 09-07-2017, 07:23 PM   #46
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Default Re: Spear worth it? fantasy campain

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Originally Posted by Flyndaran View Post
If you're going to be pedantic about my use of "literally", then I can respond by saying that getting slapped with a wet noodle would still count as "offensive". ;)
I'm just saying that the cliche "everything is a weapon" doesn't really take into account that some things are better immediate weapons than others, and there's a whole class of things (including some seriously weaponizable ones like fertilizer and uranium ore) that aren't usually better than fists or any other rock or whatever, if you need a weapon right now.

Last edited by sir_pudding; 09-07-2017 at 07:33 PM.
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Old 09-07-2017, 07:33 PM   #47
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Default Re: Spear worth it? fantasy campain

I like a Wood-Elf Spear Master build, using the +1 Move to advantage to get the 2-hex "Step". I like to use the Reach 2 and 2-hex step to keep tripping opponents from 3-hex range, making them Move to attack (skill capped at 9). With a 17 parry, they have a hard time touching you.

Something like the following:

Name: Spear-Master
Race: Wood Elf

Attributes [185]
ST 13 [40] (ST includes -1 from 'Wood Elf (Dungeon Fantasy)')
DX 16 [100] (DX includes +1 from 'Wood Elf (Dungeon Fantasy)')
IQ 10
HT 12 [20]

HP 13
Will 10
Per 12 [10]
FP 12

Basic Lift 34
Damage 1d/2d-1

Basic Speed 7
Basic Move 11 [15] (Basic Move includes +1 from 'Wood Elf (Dungeon Fantasy)')

Ground Move 11
Water Move 2

Social Background
TL: 3 [0]
Cultural Familiarities:
Languages:

Advantages [75]
Appearance (Attractive) [4*]
Combat Reflexes [15]
Enhanced Parry (Spear) (2) [10]
Forest Guardian (4) [10+10*]
Magery 0 [5*]
Weapon Master (Spear) (One specific weapon) [20]
* = item is owned Wood Elf (Dungeon Fantasy).

Perks [1]
Elven Gear [1*]
Form Mastery (Spear-Staff) [1]
* = item is owned by Wood Elf (Dungeon Fantasy).

Disadvantages [-50]
Bloodlust (12 or less) [-10]
Callous [-5]
Code of Honor (Bushido) [-15]
Curious (12 or less) [-5]
Honesty (12 or less) [-10]
Racial ST Penalty (-1) [-10*]
Sense of Duty (Adventuring companions) [-5]
Sense of Duty (Nature) [-15*]
* = item is owned by Wood Elf (Dungeon Fantasy).

Quirks [-5]
_Unused Quirk 1 [-1]
_Unused Quirk 2 [-1]
_Unused Quirk 3 [-1]
_Unused Quirk 4 [-1]
_Unused Quirk 5 [-1]

Packages [0]
Elves (Dungeon Fantasy) [0]
Wood Elf (Dungeon Fantasy) [20]

Skills [44]
Acrobatics DX/H - DX+0 16 [4]
Bow DX/A - DX+4 20 [2] #
Fast-Draw (Arrow) DX/E - DX+6 22 [1] #, $
Feint (Spear) Tech/H - 24 [5]
Spear DX/A - DX+4 20 [16]
includes: Enhanced Parry (Spear)
Spear Thrower DX/A - DX-1 15 [1]
Staff DX/A - DX+4 20 [8]
Stealth DX/A - DX+3 19 [1] #
Survival (Woodlands) Per/A - Per+3 15 [1] #
Sweep (Spear) Tech/H - 20 [4]
Thrown Weapon (Spear) DX/E - DX+0 16 [1]
# includes: +4 from 'Forest Guardian'
$ includes: +1 from 'Combat Reflexes'

Stats [185] Ads [75] Disads [-50] Quirks [-5] Skills [44] = Total [250]

Hand Weapons
1 Spear (Fine, Balanced) LC:4 $280 Wgt:4
1H Thrust Dam:1d+5 imp Reach:1* Parry:17 ST:9 Skill:SK:Spear(21) Notes:[1]
2H Thrust Dam:1d+6 imp Reach:1,2* Parry:17 ST:9 Skill:SK:Spear(21)

Ranged Weapons
1 Spear LC:4 Dam:1d+5 imp Acc:2 Range:13 / 20
RoF:1 Shots:T(1) ST:9 Bulk:-3 Rcl: $280 Wgt:4

Armor & Possessions
1 Boots $80 Wgt:3 Location:feet
1 Buff Leather Coat $210 Wgt:16 Location:body, limbs
1 Gauntlets $100 Wgt:2 Location:hands
1 Leather Helm $20 Wgt:.5 Location:skull, face
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Old 09-08-2017, 01:33 AM   #48
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Default Re: Spear worth it? fantasy campain

Quote:
Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
I'm just saying that the cliche "everything is a weapon" doesn't really take into account that some things are better immediate weapons than others, and there's a whole class of things (including some seriously weaponizable ones like fertilizer and uranium ore) that aren't usually better than fists or any other rock or whatever, if you need a weapon right now.
Just quickly since I seem to have accidentally sparked something ;-).

The line "if it's in your hand, it's a weapon", was in reference to shields. i.e I wasn't inferring anything that can be held in your hand is a weapon*, just that shields are weapons (even if they are also great at protecting you and your mates). Basically it's a refutation of the idea that a shield is "armour you hold" a concept which crops up in some RPG systems like 'Shield -1 AC' (as referenced by DouglasCole).




*although yeah there is a meme about that

Last edited by Tomsdad; 09-08-2017 at 04:44 AM.
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Old 09-08-2017, 12:30 PM   #49
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Default Re: Spear worth it? fantasy campain

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Originally Posted by hal View Post
Page 365 of GURPS CAMPAIGNS. It is the second to last "thing" under the heading of "FEINTS". Frankly, the inclusion of that rule seems a bit bogus to my mind simply because anyone trained in shield work will know that a shield can be used offensively. Only a fool presumes that his opponent doesn't know what he knows about fighting. If a shield can be used offensively, then it shouldn't take an actual "first attack before using in feint" sequence - but, the rules as written are the rules as written.
That would explain the unfamiliarity- probably never had to use the shield feinting rules before.

I would note though that it says "After you have attacked your foe once by striking with your shield..." To be generous, it doesn't say that the attack has to succeed. I think if your opponent is swinging a 4' wooden board with intent at your chin, it doesn't have to connect to convince you that he's using it as a weapon. In fact, a successful Intimidation or Fast Talk roll could substitute if you say something like, "You know, I named my shield Chin-Whacker. Wanna know why?" Then jump straight to a Shield Feint.

Quote:
One of the "things" about GURPS rules for skills is that "EASY" skills are always cheaper in point costs than are AVERAGE skills. If you wanted to say, have a skill at Attribute+4, the cost for the Average skill is always more expensive than the same skill gain at the Easier skill level.

Note that in my earlier post, I listed the point costs to get spear at DX+3 and the point cost to get Shield at DX+4. Both cost 12 points apiece. So, to put it another way? For the same point expenditure for either of a DX EASY or DX AVERAGE skill, the DX EASY skill is always +1 better than the Average skill, and is +2 better than a Hard skill.
Sorry, but that wasn't my question. Regardless of how you get skills of 16 in Shield and Spear, taking Feint (Spear) and Feint (Shield) from 16 to 20 costs 5 points for either of them. I'm not clear why you think it's better to take Feint (Shield) instead of Feint (Spear), if spear is your main weapon and does more damage. Just Feint and Attack with your spear in the first place.

The only reason I could think of would be if you're worried about losing your spear and switching to a back-up one-handed weapon, so you'd still have the benefit of the high Shield Feint, but that didn't seem to be the kind of situation your post was concerned with. And I'm not sure if your Feint with one hand can carry over to an attack with a weapon in your other hand, though that sounds like something in MA.

PS: A wet noodle could present a serious choking hazard.
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Last edited by Daigoro; 09-08-2017 at 12:45 PM.
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Old 09-08-2017, 02:40 PM   #50
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Default Re: Spear worth it? fantasy campain

Quote:
Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
By ignoring the noodle as irrelevant.
I dunno, I suspect it takes a certain level of cinematic awesomeness to reliably *hold on to* a wet noodle while swinging it around like a weapon - they're pretty slippery. So if some lunatic is successfully doing that, it's possible it's going to be surprisingly dangerous.
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