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Old 09-08-2017, 12:02 AM   #1
Hellboy
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Default Hurting yourself Biting

Was thinking about implications of B379. You could cripple your hand punching 3 DR for 5+ damage... What about biting it?

I was thinking this would be taking damage to your head... So by the rules if I take 1 DMG and it is enough to cause Shock (it is for most humans with under 20 HP) biting 3+ DR for 5+ damage would cause a HT roll to avoid knockdown?

MA137 introduces the Jaw location which seems more specific: same except the HT roll is -1.

It makes me wonder at what point you break teeth. Broken teeth are bound to cause lots of problems but might (depending on angles ) cause shards and some cutting damage?

Loosing teeth altogether guessing would be like Weak Bite along with "Slippery".
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Old 09-08-2017, 12:33 AM   #2
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Default Re: Hurting yourself Biting

Had a cat lose a tooth biting me once. In her defense she was at the age to be losing her baby teeth anyway...
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Old 09-08-2017, 01:52 AM   #3
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I'd be tempted to use the expanded jaw and missing teeth rules from the Pyramid 100 "Realistic Injury, Expanded" article. In some way

But with an eye to the point that some animals have adapted to losing teeth when biting.
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Old 09-08-2017, 12:11 PM   #4
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Default Re: Hurting yourself Biting

In general I wouldn't consider breaking teeth to be HP damage - it's quite difficult to die from breaking teeth.

However, it's not difficult to die from broken teeth. In a game where I was imposing Harsh Realism and this kind of detailed wound tracking, I would make a check for infection (p. 444) and note that you have a -2 to recover from the infection until your broken teeth are removed. Abscessed teeth are horrible, and can kill you via a number of really nasty ways.
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Old 09-08-2017, 02:26 PM   #5
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Default Re: Hurting yourself Biting

Part of HP loss is simply shock, and the shock of loosing a tooth might be enough to push you into.unconsciousness or cause the body to shut down.

It would be difficult to kill yourself this way because (nice find tomsdad!) missing Tooth 2 would penalize your bite so much that it would be hard to continue hurting yourself...

Although that does seem a tad off. If you are missing teeth, that should make your remaining teeth more vulnerable, not less. You can in theory close your jaw with the same force (bite ST should not go down) but now fewer teeth channel that force.

That might even increase damage? Narrower striking surface. But more stress per tooth.

-1/die probably assumes you naturally pull your bite and make it weaker to avoid injury. So maybe there could be an option to ignore the penalty at increased chance of injury...

Like maybe fist>finger this means biting ANY damage resistance triggers Hurting Yourself (not 3+) and maybe it could be 1 HP per 4 HP for missing teeth 1, 1 HP per 3 HP for missing teeth 2?

Fewer teeth + punched in mouth seems more likely to be a problem too. Maybe -1 to the HT check for losing more teeth if you already lost some?

Another thing about major wound checks (P100p33) which I assume is diff from the check you do for teeth (making it possible to have a broken jaw without losing teeth) voice/diet aside, shouldn't a broken jaw also cause Weak Bite? If you can only eat soft food then you wouldn't be able to bite people very well. Some Chronic Pain could also make sense.
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Old 09-08-2017, 02:33 PM   #6
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Default Re: Hurting yourself Biting

Losing teeth doesn't cause significant medical shock, I don't think. I have certainly never heard of anybody going down from getting a tooth knocked out.
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Old 09-08-2017, 04:32 PM   #7
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Default Re: Hurting yourself Biting

It only takes 1 HP to knock out a tooth, you can pass the HT check to avoid knockdown when taking Shock on head injury but fail the HT check to avoid tooth loss on jaw shots.

Realistically you will suffer 1 HP max from hurting yourself on a bite of 5-9 damage.

I know from biting down on a piece of cartilage in a chicken burger last night that this can be extremely painful. I believe I did an All Out Attack: Strong on my burger and maybe scored a critical hit on it for damage multipliers. I had already secured a two handed grapple so I probably spent some Control Points for a "grab and hit" to enhance damage too.

Definitely took -1 to IQ and DX for a second. So I must have lost a hit point. Sitting around resting and watching TV the rest of the night allowed me to recover it.

I was already sitting so unable to tell if I failed my knockdown roll. Sorta lurched forward moaning. If I did, it wasn't enough to knock me out. No teeth broke off so must have passed that roll too.

Not enough to reduce me below 0 HP and start making Will rolls to remain conscious or HT rolls to remain alive... But I was uninjured. If I had already been at 0 or 1 HP, who knows, that hard spot in my burger could've been the last straw that shocked my already stressed system into shutdown.

If people can have heart attacks and die simply from fear or excitement, pain from a hard bite seems like it could also do that.
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Old 09-08-2017, 05:22 PM   #8
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Default Re: Hurting yourself Biting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno View Post
In general I wouldn't consider breaking teeth to be HP damage - it's quite difficult to die from breaking teeth.

However, it's not difficult to die from broken teeth. In a game where I was imposing Harsh Realism and this kind of detailed wound tracking, I would make a check for infection (p. 444) and note that you have a -2 to recover from the infection until your broken teeth are removed. Abscessed teeth are horrible, and can kill you via a number of really nasty ways.
I think one neanderthal skeleton shows signs of having possibly died from an abscessed tooth.
It's hard to imagine a location more prone to getting infected. It's the place where outside lifeforms gets mashed, warmed, liquified, and "bits" stay in.
At least "exits" and accompanying material had loads of time interacting with the immune system and symbiotic bacteria.
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Old 09-08-2017, 07:29 PM   #9
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Default Re: Hurting yourself Biting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyndaran View Post
I think one neanderthal skeleton shows signs of having possibly died from an abscessed tooth.
You don't have to go looking that far back. Before antibiotics this was a real problem, and it's still a problem in people who can't afford dental care or who are afraid of dentists.

Dental surgery even without antibiotics helps, in that letting the abscess drain into your mouth is gross, but much safer. The alternatives are one of your blood (blood poisoning), tissues around your mouth and throat (swelling and then suffocation), body cavity (more infection in all those lovely vital organs), sinuses (discharge into your lungs), or in worst case scenarios, your brain (encephalitis).
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