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Old 08-20-2017, 03:13 AM   #1
Drakyrias
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Default 3rd edition Multiple Forms and time limitations

The limitation "Takes extra time" says it reduces -10% per extra second of concentration to access the power. But for multiple forms it says it only grants a price reduction of -20% if it takes 1d minutes to transform or 40% if its hours.

A combat turn is seconds, a beast man type werewolf is supposed to be handled like a Supers Multiple Form.

This seems like a crippling and wide gap. Any time between instant and 1 minute is no value reduction and 1-6 minutes is a 20% reduction.

Multiple forms are also supposed to be a full divisible of the character sheet, so am I missing something?
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Old 08-20-2017, 02:19 PM   #2
Curmudgeon
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Default Re: 3rd edition Multiple Forms and time limitations

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drakyrias View Post
The limitation "Takes extra time" says it reduces -10% per extra second of concentration to access the power. But for multiple forms it says it only grants a price reduction of -20% if it takes 1d minutes to transform or 40% if its hours.

A combat turn is seconds, a beast man type werewolf is supposed to be handled like a Supers Multiple Form.

This seems like a crippling and wide gap. Any time between instant and 1 minute is no value reduction and 1-6 minutes is a 20% reduction.

Multiple forms are also supposed to be a full divisible of the character sheet, so am I missing something?
Quite a few things, though it may also be that you're missing the relevant books.

First, Multiple Forms isn't the preferred way to build a beast-man type werewolf. Multiple Forms (p. SU 43 or CI 62) isn't a particularly efficient build until you have at least two forms with powers.

The Transformation advantage (p. SU47 or CI68) is better suited when one of the forms has no powers.

The relevant rules in GURPS Supers and GURPS Compendium I have been superseded by the rules in GURPS Shapeshifters but if you don't have that book and do have Compendium, you might want to look at the: Animal Form (p. CI33); Shapeshifter ("Were") (p. CI 43); and Morph (p. CI61) advantages.

GURPS Shapeshifters had new rules for Morph and Shapeshifter ("Were") which superseded the Compendium I rules for those advantages. As well, those two advantages superseded the advantages: Animal Form; Multiple Forms and Transformation (for were-builds only, it's still a valid advantage for supers with a "power-up" form). Additional, the Shapeshifter (p. RU37) advantage from GURPS Russia (really an animals-only form of Morph) was retained as a valid advantage, but not reprinted from Russia.
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Old 08-20-2017, 03:07 PM   #3
Drakyrias
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Default Re: 3rd edition Multiple Forms and time limitations

Thank you. I just got it. Its already improving my NPCs
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Old 08-20-2017, 06:30 PM   #4
Drakyrias
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Default Re: 3rd edition Multiple Forms and time limitations

So not meaning to be dense here, but should I use shape shifting to just entirely replace multiple forms, even when not building a were, because otherwise my original issue with the 1d minutes limitation still needs to be answered?
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Old 08-20-2017, 08:54 PM   #5
Curmudgeon
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Default Re: 3rd edition Multiple Forms and time limitations

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Originally Posted by Drakyrias View Post
Thank you. I just got it. Its already improving my NPCs
You didn't say whether it was Compendium or Shapeshifters which you just got, but for the purpose of answering your next post, I'm assuming that it was Shapeshifters.

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Originally Posted by Drakyrias View Post
So not meaning to be dense here, but should I use shape shifting to just entirely replace multiple forms, even when not building a were, because otherwise my original issue with the 1d minutes limitation still needs to be answered?
Yes, Shapeshifting ("Were") is what you want, even if the character isn't technically a were. As the text mentions, your alternate form(s) can be anything: animal, alien, robot, etc., as long as it can be built with points. The change takes 3 seconds of unbroken concentration, but you can use the enhancements and limitations on pp. SH26-35 to alter the advantage. Specifically, if 3 seconds to change is still an issue, you should look at Fast Change (p. SH27). You may also find Absorptive Change and Active Change (both on p. SH26) useful as well.

Morph and Shapeshifting ("Were") both allow the character to have multiple forms but there are differences between the two base advantages. The forms (racial templates) for Shapeshifting are fixed when you buy them, so if your racial templates were: man; wolf; fox; raccoon; and black bear, then those are the forms you can turn into, though you could later add polar bear, for example, with earned experience points.

Morph, on the other hand, can use any racial template that the base advantage can afford and can later use earned experience points to allow the use of higher priced templates. A Morph needs to have a sample creature present in order to change, while a Shapeshifter does not. For example, a Morph couldn't change into a black bear unless a black bear was physically present where the Morph could see it (unless a black bear was one of the limited number of forms that the Morph has "memorized.") A Morph takes longer to complete a change than does a Shapeshifter and the base advantage Morph is significantly pricier than Shapeshifting ("Were"). Additionally, the GM has final say on what racial templates are available to Morph. The text example is a Morph not having the robot template available as a choice, though it's specifically mentioned as being a valid template for Shapeshifting ("Were").
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Old 08-20-2017, 09:37 PM   #6
Drakyrias
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Default Re: 3rd edition Multiple Forms and time limitations

Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
You didn't say whether it was Compendium or Shapeshifters which you just got, but for the purpose of answering your next post, I'm assuming that it was Shapeshifters.



Yes, Shapeshifting ("Were") is what you want, even if the character isn't technically a were. As the text mentions, your alternate form(s) can be anything: animal, alien, robot, etc., as long as it can be built with points. The change takes 3 seconds of unbroken concentration, but you can use the enhancements and limitations on pp. SH26-35 to alter the advantage. Specifically, if 3 seconds to change is still an issue, you should look at Fast Change (p. SH27). You may also find Absorptive Change and Active Change (both on p. SH26) useful as well.

Morph and Shapeshifting ("Were") both allow the character to have multiple forms but there are differences between the two base advantages. The forms (racial templates) for Shapeshifting are fixed when you buy them, so if your racial templates were: man; wolf; fox; raccoon; and black bear, then those are the forms you can turn into, though you could later add polar bear, for example, with earned experience points.

Morph, on the other hand, can use any racial template that the base advantage can afford and can later use earned experience points to allow the use of higher priced templates. A Morph needs to have a sample creature present in order to change, while a Shapeshifter does not. For example, a Morph couldn't change into a black bear unless a black bear was physically present where the Morph could see it (unless a black bear was one of the limited number of forms that the Morph has "memorized.") A Morph takes longer to complete a change than does a Shapeshifter and the base advantage Morph is significantly pricier than Shapeshifting ("Were"). Additionally, the GM has final say on what racial templates are available to Morph. The text example is a Morph not having the robot template available as a choice, though it's specifically mentioned as being a valid template for Shapeshifting ("Were").
Thanks. I'll make note to ignore Multiple forms, Animal Form and Lycanthropcy from Compendium 1 and Supers from now on.

My major issue was I'm running a supers based game where I build 'street level' powers for my players, one of which I gave a transformation which took 3 seconds to transform into, and looking at multiple forms 1d minutes was just ridiculously crippling in any kind of a crisis situation.

I'm decently accomplished running several games, and love GURPS but this still getting my balance with interpretations with this game.
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