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Old 08-16-2017, 07:28 PM   #1
zuljita
 
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Default [DF][Incantation] Casting without manipulators

Considering whipping up a body of air or body of smoke spell that includes no fine manipulators but DF:19 says that an incantation requires "A quick word, a gesture and a second of concentration". Can you make the gesture with no manipulators?
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Old 08-16-2017, 07:54 PM   #2
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Default Re: [DF][Incantation] Casting without manipulators

No fine manipulators is different from no manipulators at all. You can still make a gesture with an arm missing a hand, but if you are missing the arm entirely that becomes a problem. You might have to build the Body of Air/Smoke template a bit differently than default if you want to be able to still gesture.
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Old 08-16-2017, 10:48 PM   #3
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Default Re: [DF][Incantation] Casting without manipulators

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Originally Posted by ZmbeHntr View Post
No fine manipulators is different from no manipulators at all. You can still make a gesture with an arm missing a hand, but if you are missing the arm entirely that becomes a problem. You might have to build the Body of Air/Smoke template a bit differently than default if you want to be able to still gesture.
^This pretty much.
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Old 08-17-2017, 07:20 AM   #4
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Default Re: [DF][Incantation] Casting without manipulators

Doctor Strange loses his Fine manipulators and still casts spells, so there's plenty of fictional precedent :)
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Old 08-17-2017, 07:28 AM   #5
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Default Re: [DF][Incantation] Casting without manipulators

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Originally Posted by zuljita View Post
Considering whipping up a body of air or body of smoke spell that includes no fine manipulators but DF:19 says that an incantation requires "A quick word, a gesture and a second of concentration". Can you make the gesture with no manipulators?
Note that when you are using it for a body of something intangible, the "Fine" and "Manipulators" parts of that disadvantage no longer fully overlap. You make gestures with the Fine bit, you use physical tools with the Manipulators bit. Intangible forms can't do the later, but the former is more open to interpretation.
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Old 08-17-2017, 04:00 PM   #6
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Default Re: [DF][Incantation] Casting without manipulators

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Doctor Strange loses his Fine manipulators and still casts spells, so there's plenty of fictional precedent :)
He loses his high levels of High Manual Dexterity and acquires Ham-Fisted, possibly Bad Grip.
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Old 08-17-2017, 04:58 PM   #7
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Default Re: [DF][Incantation] Casting without manipulators

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He loses his high levels of High Manual Dexterity and acquires Ham-Fisted, possibly Bad Grip.
If I were actually building before-and-after characters instead of making a joke, I agree that I'd just take away some starting HMD. Numb (for the hands) is also a possibility, though Ham-Fisted is probably most accurate.

Have to get the points to pay for all those new Sorceror Supreme powers from somewhere, after all.
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Old 08-17-2017, 05:49 PM   #8
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Default Re: [DF][Incantation] Casting without manipulators

I have always run it if a characters form is native he can cast spells.
My Dragons do not need hands or high skills to cast, they just use different gestures than humanoids. For shapechangers I have played it as a perk to adapt to a different body type or just a familiarity penalty they could ignore with enough time and practice.
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Old 08-18-2017, 10:42 AM   #9
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Default Re: [DF][Incantation] Casting without manipulators

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Originally Posted by Refplace View Post
I have always run it if a characters form is native he can cast spells.
My Dragons do not need hands or high skills to cast, they just use different gestures than humanoids. For shapechangers I have played it as a perk to adapt to a different body type or just a familiarity penalty they could ignore with enough time and practice.
For a big enough difference in form I might require a Thaumatology or whatever skill represents knowledge of how magic works roll. This would apply in both directions, a human trying to teach a spell to a immaterial being or vice versa for example.
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