Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-02-2017, 12:12 PM   #11
sir_pudding
Wielder of Smart Pants
 
sir_pudding's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
Default Re: Seeking build advice: Modern conspiracy character creation

Quote:
Originally Posted by DataPacRat View Post
Those particular Limitations are a bit fuzzy, meant to describe real-world cryonics, which has an uncertain chance of success and an uncertain date of payoff.
I don't see how it is an ability at all. It's a (particularly expensive) mortuary service. It costs money, but mortuary expenses are probably part of CoL.

Thinking it might work is a belief quirk at most. It isn't like Christians need to take Unkillable with limitations representing bodily resurrection on Judgment Day in order to represent burial!
sir_pudding is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2017, 12:21 PM   #12
DataPacRat
 
DataPacRat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Niagara, Canada
Default Re: Seeking build advice: Modern conspiracy character creation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen View Post
You're right, Preparation Required isn't appropriate here, since Preparation Required actually requires the character to be spending the time doing the preparation.

I'd just call it a new limitation for Extra Life, "Delayed Return". I think Extra Life already assumes that there's some delay between your "death" and return - at least long enough for your enemies to go "Well, they must be dead" and leave - but a longer delay definitely seems like a limitation. I'd say that a guaranteed delay of 1 day would be -10%, a week -20%, a month -30%, three months -40%, six months -50%, a year -60%, two years -70%, and three years or more -80%.
That sounds workable.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
I don't see how it is an ability at all. It's a (particularly expensive) mortuary service. It costs money, but mortuary expenses are probably part of CoL.

Thinking it might work is a belief quirk at most. It isn't like Christians need to take Unkillable with limitations representing bodily resurrection on Judgment Day in order to represent burial!
Crossing several levels of meta: And in the 95% of universes where the Unreliable roll is 6 or more, you're right, it's little more than an elaborate funeral. Some people are willing to gamble they're in one of the other 5% of universes; this character is one of them, you're not, and I can't think of any easy way to bridge the gap without a few megabytes' worth of forum postings and discussion.
__________________
Thank you for your time,
--
DataPacRat
"Does aₘᵢₙ=2cē/Θ ? I don't know, but wouldn't it be fascinating if it were?"
DataPacRat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2017, 12:24 PM   #13
sir_pudding
Wielder of Smart Pants
 
sir_pudding's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
Default Re: Seeking build advice: Modern conspiracy character creation

Quote:
Originally Posted by DataPacRat View Post
Crossing several levels of meta: And in the 95% of universes where the Unreliable roll is 6 or more, you're right, it's little more than an elaborate funeral. Some people are willing to gamble they're in one of the other 5% of universes; this character is one of them, you're not, and I can't think of any easy way to bridge the gap without a few megabytes' worth of forum postings and discussion.
Even if it is 100% successful, it is still a service, not an ability. I wouldn't make people pay points to have a contract to cast Resurrection on them, either (and certainly not to be resurrected in some far future time).

Just because you have car insurance doesn't mean that your car has Extra Life.
sir_pudding is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2017, 12:34 PM   #14
DataPacRat
 
DataPacRat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Niagara, Canada
Default Re: Seeking build advice: Modern conspiracy character creation

Quote:
Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
Even if it is 100% successful, it is still a service, not an ability. I wouldn't make people pay points to have a contract to cast Resurrection on them, either (and certainly not to be resurrected in some far future time).

Just because you have car insurance doesn't mean that your car has Extra Life.
Now there's a detail worth arguing about. ;)

As it happens, the cost for one present-day cryo group, plus extras like "standby", is on the order of $50k; which, if bought as Signature Gear, would cost around... 5 points. The current writeup already has one piece of Signature Gear; as a GM, would you allow both to be bought as SG? Or do you have a different approach in mind? (And would it be worth getting into the distinction between pre-paying the whole thing as a lump sum, versus paying for fairly inexpensive life insurance which pays the lump sum to the cryo provider?)
__________________
Thank you for your time,
--
DataPacRat
"Does aₘᵢₙ=2cē/Θ ? I don't know, but wouldn't it be fascinating if it were?"
DataPacRat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2017, 12:39 PM   #15
sir_pudding
Wielder of Smart Pants
 
sir_pudding's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
Default Re: Seeking build advice: Modern conspiracy character creation

Quote:
Originally Posted by DataPacRat View Post
As it happens, the cost for one present-day cryo group, plus extras like "standby", is on the order of $50k; which, if bought as Signature Gear, would cost around... 5 points. The current writeup already has one piece of Signature Gear; as a GM, would you allow both to be bought as SG?
I wouldn't allow it as SG because it isn't gear. It is a service contract. I definitely would allow multiple instances of Signature Gear, (but I'm thinking of adopting the Signature Gear is a perk per item rule anyway).
Quote:
Or do you have a different approach in mind? (And would it be worth getting into the distinction between pre-paying the whole thing as a lump sum, versus paying for fairly inexpensive life insurance which pays the lump sum to the cryo provider?)
Life insurance, mortuary services and the like aren't adventuring expenses and are part of CoL.

The only way this matters at all is if the GM wants to run a sequel campaign or time-travel plot or something with corpsicles, which is totally a meta decision. There isn't any point in paying for it, and certainly no point in putting a built-in failure chance on it. If it happens, it happens.

Last edited by sir_pudding; 08-02-2017 at 12:46 PM.
sir_pudding is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2017, 12:47 PM   #16
DataPacRat
 
DataPacRat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Niagara, Canada
Default Re: Seeking build advice: Modern conspiracy character creation

Quote:
Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
I wouldn't allow it as SG because it isn't gear. It is a service contract. I definitely would allow multiple instances of Signature Gear, (but I'm thinking of adopting the Signature Gear is a perk per item rule anyway).
Life insurance, mortuary services and the like aren't adventuring expenses and are part of CoL.
Hm... I've just started reading through PowerUps6, Quirks, and one suggested example of a quirk's effect is "lost ... cash equal to about 10% of the character's income, as a lump sum monthly". Cryo life insurance costs around as much as cable TV; would treating it as such a quirk be a viable replacement for either of the 5-pointer approaches mentioned so far?
__________________
Thank you for your time,
--
DataPacRat
"Does aₘᵢₙ=2cē/Θ ? I don't know, but wouldn't it be fascinating if it were?"
DataPacRat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2017, 12:59 PM   #17
sir_pudding
Wielder of Smart Pants
 
sir_pudding's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
Default Re: Seeking build advice: Modern conspiracy character creation

Quote:
Originally Posted by DataPacRat View Post
Hm... I've just started reading through PowerUps6, Quirks, and one suggested example of a quirk's effect is "lost ... cash equal to about 10% of the character's income, as a lump sum monthly". Cryo life insurance costs around as much as cable TV; would treating it as such a quirk be a viable replacement for either of the 5-pointer approaches mentioned so far?
That's Debt and it is in the Basic Set too, and yes, that works. Especially if you are paying Status 0 CoL and cryonics is probably not available as an option below Status 1.

Note that this really isn't any different, in terms of game utility (whether it works or not because if it does work it most likely will be outside the scope of the game) or even real world economics, from having an expensive family plot and planning for a lavish funeral service (and of course many people believe burial "works" and in a campaign with the supernatural, it is about as likely to matter as cryonics). Which definitely seems like a thing that high Status CoL gets you if you want it. So taking Debt to get it with lower Status CoL works, but make sure that you aren't overpaying (if 10% of your income is more than the difference in CoLs you are better off just paying the higher CoL).

On the other hand, if I was the GM, I would just say that you get it with your normal CoL, because it really doesn't matter (and you could make it work in lieu of, as you say, cable or something) and I would rather you spend your income on useful things.
sir_pudding is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2017, 12:14 PM   #18
DataPacRat
 
DataPacRat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Niagara, Canada
Default Re: Seeking build advice: Modern conspiracy character creation

1. How much should the Limitation "Only when asleep" be worth, when applied to Noisy? (My first guess: -20%, matching 'only at night'.)

2. Given the -1 reaction penalty per level, how long do you think a PC could avoid being murdered by the rest of the party with "Snoring can be mistaken for a wild animal: Noisy, 5 levels (Only when asleep)"? Would buying a lot of earplugs to share around help? :)

3. After skimming through a lot of unrelated 4e books, I've finally found a significant change I can make to the charsheet that brings it closer in line with the concept: from Dungeon Fantasy 4, "Modular Abilities: Book-Learned Wisdom", probably 1 slot holding 1 or 2 CP. I've already got a large digital library as Signature Gear (and filling it up with 'software tools' from High-Tech felt more like a side-effect than its core purpose). And I can probably throw in a couple levels of the 'Memory Palace' technique, and call the package 'Memorization Techniques'.

But this is my first excursion into Modular Abilities. Other than throwing together an inventory of ebooks that can be studied, is there anything about them I should watch out for?
__________________
Thank you for your time,
--
DataPacRat
"Does aₘᵢₙ=2cē/Θ ? I don't know, but wouldn't it be fascinating if it were?"
DataPacRat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2017, 12:25 PM   #19
sir_pudding
Wielder of Smart Pants
 
sir_pudding's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
Default Re: Seeking build advice: Modern conspiracy character creation

Quote:
Originally Posted by DataPacRat View Post
1. How much should the Limitation "Only when asleep" be worth, when applied to Noisy? (My first guess: -20%, matching 'only at night'.)
I think this really is just a quirk, specifically whichever kind of quirk that is where you situationally have a disadvantage. Loud snoring just isn't likely to come up.
Quote:
2. Given the -1 reaction penalty per level, how long do you think a PC could avoid being murdered by the rest of the party with "Snoring can be mistaken for a wild animal: Noisy, 5 levels (Only when asleep)"? Would buying a lot of earplugs to share around help? :)
The only way it is likely to ever matter is if the GM creates some situation where it does, which is going to be some work, which is why this is really ought to be a quirk. The main disadvantage of Noisy is that it negates Stealth, but you aren't going to be making Stealth rolls while asleep very often.
Quote:
3. After skimming through a lot of unrelated 4e books, I've finally found a significant change I can make to the charsheet that brings it closer in line with the concept: from Dungeon Fantasy 4, "Modular Abilities: Book-Learned Wisdom", probably 1 slot holding 1 or 2 CP. I've already got a large digital library as Signature Gear (and filling it up with 'software tools' from High-Tech felt more like a side-effect than its core purpose). And I can probably throw in a couple levels of the 'Memory Palace' technique, and call the package 'Memorization Techniques'.

But this is my first excursion into Modular Abilities. Other than throwing together an inventory of ebooks that can be studied, is there anything about them I should watch out for?
DF scholars aren't meant to be realistic, and they are supposed to be balanced by the cost and weight of books.
sir_pudding is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2017, 01:14 PM   #20
DataPacRat
 
DataPacRat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Niagara, Canada
Default Re: Seeking build advice: Modern conspiracy character creation

Quote:
Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
I think this really is just a quirk, specifically whichever kind of quirk that is where you situationally have a disadvantage. Loud snoring just isn't likely to come up.
The only way it is likely to ever matter is if the GM creates some situation where it does, which is going to be some work, which is why this is really ought to be a quirk. The main disadvantage of Noisy is that it negates Stealth, but you aren't going to be making Stealth rolls while asleep very often.
I have an urge to dispute your points - the reaction penalty might make for some entertaining conflicts with the Claim to Hospitality, it removes the possibility of hiding in the wilderness at night unless he forces himself to stay awake - but I'm not sure we could get anything productive out of it.

Quote:
DF scholars aren't meant to be realistic, and they are supposed to be balanced by the cost and weight of books.
Build-wise, it looks like a variation of Modular Slots: Super-Memorization, with the Limitation of "Preparation Required: (at least) 1 hour: -50%". Super-Mem costs 5 points per slot plus 3 per point in the slot, Book-Learned Wisdom costs 5 per slot plus 2 per point, which seems to check out.

Story-wise, I'm thinking this character could say something like, "I've literally read every book in a certain public library, and many more besides that, so I've got a general idea of how a lot of different things work." (Ie, IQ 15.) "But I don't /clearly/ remember /everything/, so if I can take an hour, or four, to go over some relevant text and refresh my memory of some salient details, I can probably do a lot better." (Going from a default roll to having 1 or 2 CP in the skill.)

This feels to me to be on the edge of being cinematic, but given the rest of the build, just this side of it.

Put another way, as a member of a party, this seems to help him fill his niche by being able to study for an hour or more, and then try to get an answer by rolling on a skill that the rest of the party is missing. Random example: Theology (Ancient Egyptian) going from a default roll of IQ-6 = 9- to, with a Very Fine Textbook costing $900 (or equivalent ebooks) and a couple of hours of study, 2 points in IQ/H gives 14-, with another +2 on the roll for having the book opened for consulting during the roll. Given modern digital texts and online references, that seems... reasonably reasonable, to me. (Though I'm not an expert on GURPS skill levels.)

Your opinion may differ; whether it does or not, I'd still appreciate whatever suggestions you can offer.
__________________
Thank you for your time,
--
DataPacRat
"Does aₘᵢₙ=2cē/Θ ? I don't know, but wouldn't it be fascinating if it were?"
DataPacRat is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
chargen, conspiracy, horror, modern

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:20 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.