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Old 08-03-2017, 06:56 PM   #31
Rasna
 
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Default Re: [Low-Tech Loadouts] Etruscan Warrior, 7th to 3rd century B.C.

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Originally Posted by DanHoward View Post
All metal armour was lined with some kind of padding or was worn over a separate padded garment. The padding wouldn't be enough to provide DR 1 by itself but combined with these thin plates the result is probably DR 3.
Yep, I mean DR 2 WITH padding, because, on eye, they appear to be thinner than greaves (which are DR 3 with incorporate padding). But of course DR 3 is also acceptable in order to don't make the things too complicate in GURPS context.

Last edited by Rasna; 11-09-2018 at 08:03 AM.
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Old 08-03-2017, 11:26 PM   #32
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Default Re: [Low-Tech Loadouts] Etruscan Warrior, 7th to 3rd century B.C.

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Originally Posted by DanHoward View Post
Horned helmets were definitely worn in battle.
A lot of examples I see from a few brief searches have horns or wings as small decorative flourishes. Think Jay Garrick rather than the stereotypical Brünnhilde helmet.

Wouldn't be surprised if the conception of larger horns on such helmets owes much to them being recreated in art, theater, and gladiatorial matches or knightly tournaments with deliberate exaggeration for identification and appeal purpose, much like modern movies representing similar periods underrepresent the use of helmets and especially facial protection (no sense spending millions of dollars on an actor only to make him largely unrecognizable).
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Old 08-04-2017, 03:30 AM   #33
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Default Re: [Low-Tech Loadouts] Etruscan Warrior, 7th to 3rd century B.C.

Here are a few examples from various cultures that were worn in battle

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...or-persian.jpg
http://www.hixenbaugh.net/images/gal...rg/6327a-l.jpg
http://www.hurstwic.org/history/arti...lmet_vikso.jpg
http://exquisiteafricanart.com/wp-co...bys-1969-2.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...rloohelmet.jpg
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...ient-greek.jpg
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...6f071abf3e.jpg

They are all pretty substantial. A couple of large helmet horns were found in a Mycenaean grave shaft that were made from lead.
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Last edited by DanHoward; 08-04-2017 at 03:36 AM.
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Old 08-04-2017, 12:45 PM   #34
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Default Re: [Low-Tech Loadouts] Etruscan Warrior, 7th to 3rd century B.C.

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Here are a few examples from various cultures that were worn in battle
How is it known that they were worn in battle rather than being some sort of ceremonial helmet?
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Old 08-04-2017, 04:41 PM   #35
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Default Re: [Low-Tech Loadouts] Etruscan Warrior, 7th to 3rd century B.C.

I understand why there are some math errors in your book, Dan. They come even in my loadouts and I had to correct some of them. It's very easy to have an oversight with these cumbersome calculations.

Samnite Warlord, 5th to 3rd century (reconstructed from 4th century sources)

ARMOUR AND CLOTHING

*) Tunic – Chitōn.
Type: Ordinary Clothing (Status 2) || Locations: Torso, shoulders (110%) || DR 0 || Holdout 0 || Don 17 || Weight: 1.76 lbs || Cost: $264

*) Sandals – Sandalon.
Type: Sandals || Locations: Feet (bottom) (10%) || DR 1* || Holdout -2 || Don 10 || Weight: 0.5 lbs || Cost: $25

*) Breastplate – Cardiophylax.
Type: Plate, DR 4 (Bronze) || Locations: Chest (front, partial) (32%) || DR 4 || Holdout -4 || Don 15 || Weight: 3.84 lbs || Cost: $1,920 || Notes: Protects the chest (front, including vitals) on a roll of 1-5 on 1d. An attack to the chest aimed at avoiding it takes -3; one targeting chinks in armor on the vitals takes -10.

*) Backplate – Pneumophylax (?).
Type: Plate, DR 4 (Bronze) || Locations: Chest (back, partial) (32%) || DR 4 || Holdout -4 || Don 15 || Weight: 3.84 lbs || Cost: $1,920 || Notes: Protects the chest (back, including vitals) on a roll of 1-5 on 1d. An attack to the chest aimed at avoiding it takes -3; one targeting chinks in armor on the vitals takes -10.

*) Girdle – Zoster.
Type: Plate, Light (Bronze) || Locations: Upper abdomen (12.5%) || DR 3 || Holdout -3 || Don 6 || Weight: 1 lbs || Cost: $500 || Notes: Protects the abdomen on a roll of 1-3 on 1d.

*) Greaves – Knčmides.
Type: Plate, Light (Bronze) || Locations: Knees, shins (55%) || DR 3 || Holdout -3 || Don 24 || Weight: 4.4 lbs || Cost: $2,200 || Notes: Protects the legs on a roll of 1-4 on 1d.

*) Helmet (Horned Attic) – Pilos [Pot Helm + Cheek Guards + Nape Guard + “Crest” (= Metal Horns)].
Type: Plate, DR 4 (Bronze, One-Piece Helmet) || Locations: Skull, head (back), cheeks (26%) || DR 4 || Holdout -9 || Don 12 || Weight: 3.09 lbs || Cost: $5,330 || Notes: Protects the face a roll of 4-5 on 1d. Crest gives +1 SM for Intimidation. +12 CF for both Bronze and One-Piece Helmet and -25% weight for One-Piece Helmet also apply to the “Crest” (0.75 lbs, $ 260, already counted on stats).
- Helmet Padding: DR 1* || + 1.56 lbs || + $13
- Total: DR 5 || Don 12 || 4.65 lbs || $5,343

*) Neck Guard ["Primitive" Gorget].
Type: Plate, DR 4 (Bronze) || Locations: Neck (5%) || DR 4 || Holdout -5 || Don 3 || Weight: 0.6 lbs || Cost: $300 || Notes: -1 to combat rolls. +2 to target chinks in armor.

TOTAL (ARMOUR AND CLOTHING): Don 102 || 20.59 lbs || $12,472

WEAPONS

*) Roman Scutum, Large: DB 3, $200, 20 lbs, Don 1, DR 4, HP 27, Cover DR 10.

*) Long Knife: $120, 1.5 lbs, Don 1.

*) Shortsword: $400, 2 lbs, Don 1.

*) Spear: $40, 4 lbs, Don 1.

TOTAL (WEAPONS): Don 4 || 29.5 lbs || $760

TOTAL (WEAPONS, ARMOUR AND CLOTHING): Don 106 || 50.09 lbs || $13,232

Based on:
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...8633e88c81.jpg
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...3341e0f6f0.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...entury_BCE.jpg

I don't know if this primitive kind of gorget would impede a little the head movements (giving -1 to combat rolls like the Bevor).
Strangely, archaeological findings and artistic depictions of neck guards are very rare in Europe for the Iron Age (TL2).

Last edited by Rasna; 11-09-2018 at 09:04 AM.
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Old 08-04-2017, 05:11 PM   #36
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Default Re: [Low-Tech Loadouts] Etruscan Warrior, 7th to 3rd century B.C.

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Originally Posted by Žorkell View Post
How is it known that they were worn in battle rather than being some sort of ceremonial helmet?
To prove a historical fact we need evidence that generally comes from one of three sources: archaeological, iconographical, or textual. In this case we have all three

1) Some physical examples have damage that is consistent with being hit with a weapon.
2) We have illustrations depicting horned helmets being worn in battle.
3) We have texts describing horned helmets being worn in battle.
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Last edited by DanHoward; 08-04-2017 at 05:17 PM.
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Old 08-04-2017, 05:37 PM   #37
Rasna
 
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Default Re: [Low-Tech Loadouts] Etruscan Warrior, 7th to 3rd century B.C.

In all these loadouts, warriors don't wear any kind of protection for the arms (with the exception of the second loadout which features a linothorax with shoulder guards). Considering the fact that neck guards were very if not extremely rare, no wonder if chopping swords were so popular in early TL2 Italy, Spain and Greece.

Is there a precise reason for the abandonment of bronze armguards (pauldrons, rerebraces, vambraces, wrist guards) and cuisses during the Archaic Age? It was a matter of cost, practicality, both of them or another reason?
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Old 08-04-2017, 06:12 PM   #38
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Default Re: [Low-Tech Loadouts] Etruscan Warrior, 7th to 3rd century B.C.

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How is it known that they were worn in battle rather than being some sort of ceremonial helmet?
There is photography of both samurai and plains indians wearing them.

Just because it is true that the Norse not doing so doesn't mean nobody did. It's overcorrection.
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Old 08-05-2017, 02:33 AM   #39
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Default Re: [Low-Tech Loadouts] Etruscan Warrior, 7th to 3rd century B.C.

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Is there a precise reason for the abandonment of bronze armguards (pauldrons, rerebraces, vambraces, wrist guards) and cuisses during the Archaic Age? It was a matter of cost, practicality, both of them or another reason?
They are uncomfortable and rarely stay in place if they aren't articulated to other pieces of harness.
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Old 08-05-2017, 02:42 AM   #40
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Default Re: [Low-Tech Loadouts] Etruscan Warrior, 7th to 3rd century B.C.

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There is photography of both samurai and plains indians wearing them.

Just because it is true that the Norse not doing so doesn't mean nobody did. It's overcorrection.
The Norse wore horned helmets, but in the Bronze and Iron Ages, not the Medieval period.
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