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Old 08-01-2017, 09:16 AM   #11
DanHoward
 
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Default Re: [Low-Tech Loadouts] Etruscan Warrior, 7th to 3rd century B.C.

You're right about the loadouts. They use +9CF for one-piece bronze helmets.

The Etruscan skirt consisted of long chains connected by a few cross-links hanging off the bottom of a cuirass. It isn't really mail because it doesn't form an interconnected mesh but Butted Light Mail seems a decent approximation for the type of protection it would afford. IMO it was an attempt to create pteryges out of metal.
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Old 08-01-2017, 09:20 AM   #12
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Default Re: [Low-Tech Loadouts] Etruscan Warrior, 7th to 3rd century B.C.

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Originally Posted by DanHoward View Post
The skirt consisted of long chains connected by a few cross-links hanging off the bottom of a cuirass. It isn't really mail because it doesn't form an interconnected mesh. IMO it was an attempt to create ptyruges out of metal.
I know, I read your intervention some time ago. I've considered this as "Butted Light Mail" in GURPS terms because I don't know how to handle it. Surely it must have some protective value. Probably performs better than layered linen pteruges against cutting attacks, but it may be less protective than linen pteruges against crushing and impaling attacks.

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Old 08-01-2017, 09:26 AM   #13
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Default Re: [Low-Tech Loadouts] Etruscan Warrior, 7th to 3rd century B.C.

Butted Light Mail seems a decent approximation.
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Old 08-01-2017, 09:38 AM   #14
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Default Re: [Low-Tech Loadouts] Etruscan Warrior, 7th to 3rd century B.C.

Thanks. I'm glad that my work appears to be decent!

I've also read about bronze shoulder guards and pteruges as shoulder guards, but I haven't found material evidence for the period, so I haven't included them in loadouts. I've seen a bas-relief from an Hellenistic period Etruscan grave which shows an Etruscan light cavalryman equipped with linothorax and short shoulder pteruges, but 1) IDK if they're ornamental like some Roman ones or actual armor 2) It may be an idealization rather than a genuine portrait.
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Old 08-01-2017, 10:32 AM   #15
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Default Re: [Low-Tech Loadouts] Etruscan Warrior, 7th to 3rd century B.C.

PS: It's possible that the "mail skirt" was worn with a sort of padding or together with lighter linen pteruges? The absence of any form of padding would rend them not very desirable over quilted linen ones.
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Old 08-01-2017, 12:33 PM   #16
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Default Re: [Low-Tech Loadouts] Etruscan Warrior, 7th to 3rd century B.C.

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The problem is that GURPS doesn't reflect many of the advantages of mail like being comfortable to wear and transport.
I'm not sure what else can be done to make it more desirable from a comfort standpoint. From an economic standpoint, mail was also easy to repair, and easy to re-fit to someone else. Repair work can be done with minimal tools, and that's important. A few extra links is all that's needed in way of supplies. For a warband, this is a highly desirable situation -- in fact, I'd treat this sort of repair as Soldier +4, meaning the band does not need smithy, wagon, etc. to repair battle damage. In any event, from the standpoint of desirability, rpgs and real life often never correlate precisely. GURPS, and Dan's work, gets close enough.
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Old 08-01-2017, 03:45 PM   #17
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Default Re: [Low-Tech Loadouts] Etruscan Warrior, 7th to 3rd century B.C.

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I'm not sure what else can be done to make it more desirable from a comfort standpoint. From an economic standpoint, mail was also easy to repair, and easy to re-fit to someone else. Repair work can be done with minimal tools, and that's important. A few extra links is all that's needed in way of supplies. For a warband, this is a highly desirable situation -- in fact, I'd treat this sort of repair as Soldier +4, meaning the band does not need smithy, wagon, etc. to repair battle damage. In any event, from the standpoint of desirability, rpgs and real life often never correlate precisely. GURPS, and Dan's work, gets close enough.
The problem is more pronounced in fantasy campaigns. In historical ones, from mid TL2 to very early european TL4, mail is prevalent among anyone can afford it, and regardless of price, is the best Low-Tech flexible armour and can be layered with other rigid armors. Effectively, in semi-historical, fanta-historical and fantasy settings, the other non-combat advantages (easiness of maintenance and reparation and the fact that rings allow the heat to escape) should be actively implemented.

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Old 08-01-2017, 04:12 PM   #18
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Default Re: [Low-Tech Loadouts] Etruscan Warrior, 7th to 3rd century B.C.

Heat and climate have never really been a problem for any kind of armour. We know that some of the heaviest and most stifling armours ever invented were worn on summer campaigns in the Middle East. I've worn them in Australian summers with no more discomfort than heavy clothing. The main problem with heat comes from enclosed helmets.
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Old 08-01-2017, 04:19 PM   #19
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Default Re: [Low-Tech Loadouts] Etruscan Warrior, 7th to 3rd century B.C.

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PS: It's possible that the "mail skirt" was worn with a sort of padding or together with lighter linen pteruges? The absence of any form of padding would rend them not very desirable over quilted linen ones.
I think it was an experiment that never went anywhere. The development of mail makes this redundant.
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Old 08-01-2017, 04:34 PM   #20
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Default Re: [Low-Tech Loadouts] Etruscan Warrior, 7th to 3rd century B.C.

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Heat and climate have never really been a problem for any kind of armour. We know that some of the heaviest and most stifling armours ever invented were worn on summer campaigns in the Middle East. I've worn them in Australian summers with no more discomfort than heavy clothing. The main problem with heat comes from enclosed helmets.
I know. But, in your experience, aren't shape and material of armour at least a bit influent over both heat and cold tolerance?
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