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Old 07-17-2017, 01:47 PM   #21
mlangsdorf
 
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Default Re: Mind Control and Body Control Spells vs Elder Things in DF

Mind Control spells are probably not metabolic hazards, since they don't affect all of the living in that they specifically don't affect animals. As written, they don't affect robots, but there's every reason to believe that a mind control spell would work on a Transhuman Space sapient AI or ghost-brain, as both of those have racial IQs of 6+, free will, and neither has Immunity to Mind Control. Mind control spells that probably work on

Since the Sleep and Daze spells are probably not Metabolic Hazards, ItMH shouldn't affect them. Just like the Psychic Healing ability Sleep (Psionic Powers p 49) isn't a metabolic hazard, even though it puts people to sleep the same way a Sleep spell would.
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Old 07-17-2017, 01:50 PM   #22
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Default Re: Mind Control and Body Control Spells vs Elder Things in DF

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Originally Posted by mlangsdorf View Post
As written, they don't affect robots, but there's every reason to believe that a mind control spell would work on a Transhuman Space sapient AI or ghost-brain, as both of those have racial IQs of 6+, free will, and neither has Immunity to Mind Control.
They have Digital Mind.
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Old 07-17-2017, 02:42 PM   #23
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Default Re: Mind Control and Body Control Spells vs Elder Things in DF

Ah, thanks, I knew I was missing something. Okay, AIs don't prove my point at all.

Banestorm Vampires, Magic Liches (Magic 160), and Magic Wraiths (Magic 160), aren't alive, but as far as I can tell, they're affected by Mind Control. (They have Racial IQ 6+, free will, and aren't affected by other Control spells.) I'm pretty sure that Mind Control spells don't affect just the living and aren't Metabolic Hazards - unless I made another mistake which is always possible.
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Old 07-17-2017, 02:55 PM   #24
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Default Re: Mind Control and Body Control Spells vs Elder Things in DF

There are four ways to be immune to Mind Control spells (and specifically those . . . I'm talking about spell-based, mana-dependent magic only, not psi, weird tech, or whatever):
1. Be nonsapient (racial IQ 0-5).
2. Lack free will (have the Automaton meta-trait or anything similar).
3. Belong to a group that has a specific spell for controlling it.
All of those points are made on p. 133 of GURPS Magic. Absent one of those:
4. Have Immunity to Mind Control. This is explicitly added to many monsters that are sapient and free-willed, and for which there's no clear control spell. It's sometimes given – albeit superfluously – to creatures that would be immune for one of the three previous reasons.


There are two ways to be immune to all Body Control spells:
1. Lack a body (like any incorporeal or virtual being). This is a common-sense consideration.
2. Have Immunity to Body Control. That's no less legitimate than Immunity to Mind control.
In addition, not being alive is general protection against all Body Control spells except those noted as specifically affecting classes of beings that aren't alive (e.g., Deathtouch).

Finally, lacking the specific capacity targeted by a spell can grant immunity to that spell. This means there's no point in casting Choke on a target with Doesn't Breathe; Hunger, Nauseate, Retch, or Thirst on a being with Doesn't Eat or Drink; Rooted Feet on something with No Legs (Aerial); Strike Blind on a subject with Blindness; Weaken Blood on a creature with Injury Tolerance (Diffuse or No Blood); etc.

On that last point, Immunity to Metabolic Hazards amounts to blanket immunity to disease, poison, environmentally induced illness, and vague "sickness," so it will block Nauseate and Retch, for instance, but not Choke if the subject somehow has that advantage yet must breathe, Hunger if the subject somehow has that advantage yet must eat, and so on. A common source of confusion is write-ups for monsters with this advantage that lump the immunities it grants in with immunities granted by other traits, like Doesn't Breathe and Doesn't Eat or Drink.
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Old 07-17-2017, 03:03 PM   #25
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Default Re: Mind Control and Body Control Spells vs Elder Things in DF

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Originally Posted by mlangsdorf View Post
Mind Control spells are probably not metabolic hazards, since they don't affect all of the living in that they specifically don't affect animals. As written, they don't affect robots, but there's every reason to believe that a mind control spell would work on a Transhuman Space sapient AI or ghost-brain, as both of those have racial IQs of 6+, free will, and neither has Immunity to Mind Control. Mind control spells that probably work on

Since the Sleep and Daze spells are probably not Metabolic Hazards, ItMH shouldn't affect them. Just like the Psychic Healing ability Sleep (Psionic Powers p 49) isn't a metabolic hazard, even though it puts people to sleep the same way a Sleep spell would.
Right, then I'm going back to my personal ruling that ItMH isn't meant to stop Body Control spells as a fiat. It will work on some Body Control spells... as, in my opinion, it should also work on Sleep and Daze.

I'm personally probably just going to decide that HT resistance roll = ItMH stops it... but I'm calling in the big guns on this one.

Paging Dr. Kromm. Dr, Kromm to the reception desk...

[EDIT]
Nevermind. Kromm ninjaed me. Sneaksy Kromm, sneaksy.
[/EDIT]

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On that last point, Immunity to Metabolic Hazards amounts to blanket immunity to disease, poison, environmentally induced illness, and vague "sickness," ...
This is going into my personal notes. I like this write up for Metabolic Hazards.
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Old 07-17-2017, 03:30 PM   #26
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Default Re: Mind Control and Body Control Spells vs Elder Things in DF

So back to Lachimba's original question:
"do Mind Control and/or Body Control spells work on Elder Things in Dungeon Fantasy?"

Mind Control spells work on all Elder Things with racial IQ 6+ that do not have Immunity to Mind Control. Elder Things with Doesn't Sleep are immune to the Sleep spell. Elder Things with Immunity to Metabolic Hazards are immune to the Sickness spell.

Body Control spells work on all Elder Things that have bodies and do not have Immunity to Body Control. Elder Things with Immunity to Metabolic Hazards are immune to the Nauseate and Retch spells, and other advantages or disadvantages will give their normal immunities to specific spells.

Mind Control spells don't work on Elementals, because elementals have a specific Control Elemental spell. Mind Control spells don't work on undead created by the Zombie spell, because they have a specific Control spell, nor on undead spirits, because they have a specific Control spell. Other free-willed undead (such as vampires, liches, and wraiths) are probably subject to Mind Control spells.
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Old 07-17-2017, 03:34 PM   #27
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Default Re: Mind Control and Body Control Spells vs Elder Things in DF

Note that the Magic Resistance of Elder Things does still apply, so using these spells on them is still difficult.
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Old 07-17-2017, 08:09 PM   #28
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Default Re: Mind Control and Body Control Spells vs Elder Things in DF

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Originally Posted by mlangsdorf View Post
So back to Lachimba's original question:
"do Mind Control and/or Body Control spells work on Elder Things in Dungeon Fantasy?"

Mind Control spells work on all Elder Things with racial IQ 6+ that do not have Immunity to Mind Control. Elder Things with Doesn't Sleep are immune to the Sleep spell. Elder Things with Immunity to Metabolic Hazards are immune to the Sickness spell.

Body Control spells work on all Elder Things that have bodies and do not have Immunity to Body Control. Elder Things with Immunity to Metabolic Hazards are immune to the Nauseate and Retch spells, and other advantages or disadvantages will give their normal immunities to specific spells.

Mind Control spells don't work on Elementals, because elementals have a specific Control Elemental spell. Mind Control spells don't work on undead created by the Zombie spell, because they have a specific Control spell, nor on undead spirits, because they have a specific Control spell. Other free-willed undead (such as vampires, liches, and wraiths) are probably subject to Mind Control spells.


And how about Faeries?
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Old 07-17-2017, 08:12 PM   #29
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Default Re: Mind Control and Body Control Spells vs Elder Things in DF

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And how about Faeries?
I see no reason why they would particularly resist Body Control or Mind Control, aside from non-sapient Fairies like cu sidhe or the like being effected by Animal spells instead of Mind Control.

In fact, I often give fairies Magic Susceptibility to go with their Magery - they're very good with magic and also very easily manipulated by it.
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Old 07-17-2017, 09:17 PM   #30
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Default Re: Mind Control and Body Control Spells vs Elder Things in DF

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Originally Posted by lachimba View Post
And how about Faeries?
None of the Fey written up so far in DF are particularly susceptible or protected against magic. Though some are Dependent on mana.
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